# Crichton's "Eaters of the Dead" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517 "2015-07-18T14:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/1 "2015-07-18T14:02:44Z")
Having read “Beuwulf” only recently, I realize now that Crichton borrowed much from that poem for the book’s plot. But how true was the part wherein the hero, Ibn Fadlan, actually entered the legendary Hall of Heorot? We know he’s been to the Viking camp of Trelleborg in Denmark. What about the other places mentioned? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/2 "2015-07-18T15:02:27Z")
I can’t make sense of your question. What is it you’re asking is ‘true’ - the events in Beowulf? The events as recast in EOTD? Whether there was a real ‘Ibn Fadlan’ Crichton folded in? Or whether Crichton visited the historical locations? (ETA: One of MC’s best books because of the mighty conceit behind it, much like the “documentary” tone of _Andromeda Strain_.) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/3 "2015-07-18T17:04:00Z")
I gather there was a real Ibn Fadlan, who traveled widely and wrote about it. Having him travel to Scandinavia and meet up with Beowulf was entirely Crichton’s invention. Better book than movie. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/4 "2015-07-18T17:25:06Z")
He was a real person, a Muslim scholar who was part of an embassy from the Caliph in Baghdad to the Volga Bulgars. He traveled in what is now southern Russia, and never got anywhere near Denmark. He did encounter, and write about, people who were probably part of the Norse culture. > **[Ahmad ibn Fadlan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan)** > > Aḥmad ibn Faḍlān ibn al-ʿAbbās ibn Rāšid ibn Ḥammād, (Arabic: أحمد بن فضلان بن العباس بن راشد بن حماد; c. 879–960) commonly known as Ahmad ibn Fadlan (or Ibn Foszlan in older European literature), was a 10th-century Muslim traveler,\[a\] famous for his account of his travels as a member of an embassy of the Abbasid caliph, al-Muqtadir of Baghdad, to the king of the Volga Bulgars, known as his risāla ("account" or "journal").\[b\] > His account is most notable for providing a detailed description of th... > **[Volga Bulgaria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Bulgaria)** > > Volga Bulgaria or Volga–Kama Bulgaria, was a historical Turkic state that existed between the 9th and 13th centuries around the confluence of the Volga and Kama River, in what is now European Russia. Volga Bulgaria was a multi-ethnic state with large numbers of Turkic Bulgars, a variety of Finnic and Ugric peoples, and many East Slavs. Its strategic position allowed it to create a local trade monopoly with Norse, Cumans, and Pannonian Avars. > The Bulgars were Turkic tribes of Oghuric origin, who... ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/5 "2015-07-18T17:29:16Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > But how true was the part wherein the hero, Ibn Fadlan, actually entered the legendary Hall of Heorot? We know he’s been to the Viking camp of Trelleborg in Denmark. We don’t know he had been to Trelleborg. In fact there is no evidence he did - he observed the viking _Rus_ ( probably - there are arguments about this ) on the Volga river, probably at the [Balymer Complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balymer). However even if he had made it to Lejre in Denmark, where there is some evidence the dynasty possibly described in Beowulf were headquartered ( i.e. it is our best guess for a historical Heorot ), he would have arrived many centuries too late. Beowulf was quite possibly based on the tales of a semi-mythical [early Danish dynasty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylding). If they even existed, they had long since shuffled off the mortal coil before the real Ibn Fadlan lived. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/6 "2015-07-18T23:16:19Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > We don’t know he had been to Trelleborg. In fact there is no evidence he did - he observed the viking _Rus_ ( probably - there are arguments about this ) on the Volga river, probably at the [Balymer Complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balymer). However even if he had made it to Lejre in Denmark, where there is some evidence the dynasty possibly described in Beowulf were headquartered ( i.e. it is our best guess for a historical Heorot ), he would have arrived many centuries too late. Beowulf was quite possibly based on the tales of a semi-mythical [early Danish dynasty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylding). If they even existed, they had long since shuffled off the mortal coil before the real Ibn Fadlan lived. Well, he did describe Trelleborg accurately, though it may have been described to him. He mentioned a sea voyage but it didn’t sound that long; may have been just a short coastal hop. Last question: how valuable is Fadlan’s account, historically? Are there better accounts at the time, or earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/7 "2015-07-19T00:21:48Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Well, he did describe Trelleborg accurately, though it may have been described to him. He mentioned a sea voyage but it didn’t sound that long; may have been just a short coastal hop. My understanding is that his accounts of the Rus “king” whoever that might have been, were hearsay - repeating stories told to him by his informants. Far as has been reconstructed Ibn Fadlan seems to have bypassed the Caucasus and traveled north along the east coast of the Caspian sea. Any sea trip he took may have been a short hop there. And he doesn’t seem to have gone any further than the very recently and probably incompletely Islamized state of the [Kama Bulgars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Bulgaria) along the middle Volga, which had been his destination from the start. > [@](#): > > Last question: how valuable is Fadlan’s account, historically? Are there better accounts at the time, or earlier? How valuable has been a little disputed, as nobody can even be 100% certain he was actually describing vikings in a general sense. He likely was, but whether his cultural observations were a good guide to the early pagan Varangian Rus in general or just a description of some singular composite culture of multi-ethnic traders caught in a moment in time is kinda hard to assess. Basically there isn’t a ton of documentary evidence for that place and time. Of course the very fact that there isn’t much evidence paradoxically makes Ibn Fadlan’s account all the _more_ valuable, because it is one of the few things we have :). Several Arab and/or Persian geographers a little before and mostly after Ibn Fadlan make mention here and there of the Rus, but they were all acting on hearsay as none of them traveled beyond the ME/NA. There _were_ apparently visits to Scandinavia ( Denmark at least ) by Andalusians in the 9th and 10th centuries by sea routes, as with [al-Ṭurṭûshî](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Yaqub_al-Tartushi). But probably not much into Rus itself. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/8 "2015-07-20T14:14:19Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Having read “Beuwulf” only recently, I realize now that Crichton borrowed much from that poem for the book’s plot. But how true was the part wherein the hero, Ibn Fadlan, actually entered the legendary Hall of Heorot? We know he’s been to the Viking camp of Trelleborg in Denmark. What about the other places mentioned? Crichton didn’t “borrow”. He specifically re-told the Beowulf story. He wanted to prove that the Beowulf story could be interesting. Check out “[Sources and Inspirations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eaters_of_the_Dead)” in the wiki. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/9 "2015-07-20T15:25:31Z")
No love for Elizabeth Montgomery and **Bewitched**? Ok, Darren is a numbskull, which possibly means Samantha could be lured away from him. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/10 "2015-07-20T16:50:41Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > No love for Elizabeth Montgomery and **Bewitched**? Ok, Darren is a numbskull, which possibly means Samantha could be lured away from him. 😛 Are you suggesting Ibn Fadlan would seduce her with his slick Arab ways or that Beowulf/Buliwyf would make her swoon with his mighty thews? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/11 "2015-07-20T16:56:14Z")
Well, that post is more along the lines of suggesting I’m an idiot for posting it in the wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/12 "2015-07-20T17:57:33Z")
Beowitched? ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/13 "2015-07-20T18:07:29Z")
Wow… haven’t heard that book referenced in a while. Pretty sure “borrowed” is generous, I remember thinking as a teenager, “WTF? This is just a novel version of Beuwulf! And the it’s not even that good!”🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/14 "2015-07-20T18:16:53Z")
FWIW I liked “The 13th Warrior”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/15 "2015-07-20T18:23:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > FWIW I liked “The 13th Warrior”. I liked both the novel and the film. For some reason, aside from an adaptation of John Gardner’s “Grendel”, there were virtually no adaptations of _Beowulf_ until about 1999. Then we hot a bunch of them, and what made them interesting was the different "spin’ they put on the story. the futuristic one with Christopher Lambert. The one filmed in Iceland with no special effects. The heavily CGI Robert Zemeckis/Neil Gaiman version, the very sci fi “Outlander” version. The uninspired bad CGI SciFi Channel version “Grendel”. “The 13th Warrior” (title wisely changed from the zombie-suggesting “Eaters of the Dead”) was, to my mind, one of the better efforts, partly because of Crichton’s idea of trying to “jazz up” Beowulf with an external narrator and naturalistic explanations. The film left out the dwarves, but had enough to keep up interest. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crichtons-eaters-of-the-dead/725517/16 "2015-07-20T18:36:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > “The 13th Warrior” (title wisely changed from the zombie-suggesting “Eaters of the Dead”) was, to my mind, one of the better efforts, I agree - I’m one of many that has a soft spot for that film, even if Omar Sharif thought it was beneath him ;). I also really rather enjoyed Neil Gaiman’s hero-subverting script for his version of Beowulf. Though the animation on that one kinda veered into the uncanny valley just a bit.