# Crime and Punishment: or, the Eternal Suffering of Notre Dame **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114 "2007-09-22T16:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/1 "2007-09-22T16:54:50Z")
I’ve started this new thread to replace the old Michigan vs. ND to celebrate the due suffering Notre Dame’s “football” program is sure to suffer this year in atonement for its numerous and varied sins. (Pride, sloth, gluttony, etc.) 😛 In all seriousness, may the torment be season-long. For today, go MSU! Of course, if you actually are a fan of the Fightin’ Irish, feel free to vigorously defend your poor, put-upon team and bemoan the failures of Tyrone Willingham’s recruiting, or whatever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/2 "2007-09-22T19:05:11Z")
Personally, I hope they can some how find their way to a bowl game. And play Washington. And get their asses kicked by Tyrone Willingham. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/3 "2007-09-22T22:29:38Z")
Well, we spotted them 7 off the fumbled snap, then let them run wild for a long touchdown drive. But everything seems to have settled down. Whew! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/4 "2007-09-23T15:14:21Z")
The thing is…I used to \*like \*Notre Dame. My team (Cal) was never in the national spotlight, so I didn’t care about rankings, bowl assignments, or media attention. I’m a sucker for the color & pageantry of college football (Keith Jackson, right?) and ND had it, in spades. Plus a good fight song, and I’m Catholic. But as Cal got better, I realized that ND was a black hole into which media attention was drawn, away from more deserving teams. ESPN’s College Football live talks every day about 6-7 of the best teams in the country, plus one of the worst: Guess Who. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/5 "2007-09-23T15:50:59Z")
I love it. I hope they go 0-13 (Yeah, they probably would still get a bowl game.) ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/6 "2007-09-23T16:00:47Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Personally, I hope they can some how find their way to a bowl game. And play Washington. And get their asses kicked by Tyrone Willingham. [/QUOTE] It would be nice, but Washington is now 2-2 with three guaranteed losses ahead (Cal, USC, Oregon), so them getting a bowl bid is unlikely, but at least they are going to finish way ahead of Notre Dame. It is unconscionable that a team with Notre Dame’s tradition, booster support, financial support, coaching quality and recruiting classes is now producing stats and a record comparable to Buffalo, Temple, etc- it would be like the Patriots going 2-14 this year, or the Yankees being 40-120. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/7 "2007-09-23T16:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] or the Yankees being 40-120. [/QUOTE] We can only hope!!! 😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/8 "2007-09-23T16:36:21Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] It would be nice, but Washington is now 2-2 with three guaranteed losses ahead (Cal, USC, Oregon), so them getting a bowl bid is unlikely, but at least they are going to finish way ahead of Notre Dame. It is unconscionable that a team with Notre Dame’s tradition, booster support, financial support, coaching quality and recruiting classes is now producing stats and a record comparable to Buffalo, Temple, etc- **it would be like the Patriots going 2-14 this year, or the Yankees being 40-120**. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. Joy! Rapture! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/9 "2007-09-23T18:06:01Z")
I’m a bit disappointed that MSU allowed Notre Dame to score the first couple touchdowns this season in the game yesterday … but, heck, I suppose it was bound to happen sometime. So, what are the odds that Purdue will help ND achieve a vaunted 0-5 record? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/10 "2007-09-23T18:17:20Z")
Pur-don’t hold your breath. Everything has to come to an end. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/11 "2007-09-23T18:25:58Z")
I’m just curious- what’s the alleged “crime” that requires punishment? I admit, loving Notre Dame (as I do) is just as silly and irrational as hating them. Like many Irish Catholic kids in New York in the Sixties and Seventies, I embraced Notre Dame as “my” school, even though I never knew a soul who went there… and there were hardly any actual Irish Catholics on the football team. But if you hate Notre Dame, well, I’d love to hear something resembling a rational reason for it. Something they’ve actually done? Or just a vague, nebulous, unfounded feeling that “those bastards think they’re better than the rest of us”? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/12 "2007-09-23T18:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] But if you hate Notre Dame, well, I’d love to hear something resembling a rational reason for it. Something they’ve actually done? Or just a vague, nebulous, unfounded feeling that “those bastards think they’re better than the rest of us”? [/QUOTE] I think it’s really more like “everyone else thinks those bastards are better than the rest of us.” ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/13 "2007-09-23T19:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] I’m just curious- what’s the alleged “crime” that requires punishment? I admit, loving Notre Dame (as I do) is just as silly and irrational as hating them. Like many Irish Catholic kids in New York in the Sixties and Seventies, I embraced Notre Dame as “my” school, even though I never knew a soul who went there… and there were hardly any actual Irish Catholics on the football team. But if you hate Notre Dame, well, I’d love to hear something resembling a rational reason for it. Something they’ve actually done? Or just a vague, nebulous, unfounded feeling that “those bastards think they’re better than the rest of us”? [/QUOTE] I’m a Michigan fan. Outside of that diametrically opposing me to Notre Dame, I don’t like Notre Dame for one of the reasons I don’t like the Yankees, and that’s because I get way too much Irish coverage when it’s not even close to warranted. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/14 "2007-09-23T20:09:50Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] But if you hate Notre Dame, well, I’d love to hear something resembling a rational reason for it. Something they’ve actually done? Or just a vague, nebulous, unfounded feeling that “those bastards think they’re better than the rest of us”? [/QUOTE] See post #4. I thought I was quite eloquent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/15 "2007-09-23T22:12:24Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] I’m just curious- what’s the alleged “crime” that requires punishment? … [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for the OP, but when I saw that movie, what was it–Lenny, or Rudy, or whatever–when this guy just gave his all freakin’ ALL to play for Notre Dame, and the asshat coach just BARELY let him in for one play at the end of a no-'count game, after all he did, all year (years?) Crap, I’ve hated Notre Dame, and Dan Devine, ever since. (Hey, it was made into a movie, so it must be true, right?) ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/16 "2007-09-23T22:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=LiveOnAPlane] I can’t speak for the OP, but when I saw that movie, what was it–Lenny, or Rudy, or whatever–when this guy just gave his all freakin’ ALL to play for Notre Dame, and the asshat coach just BARELY let him in for one play at the end of a no-'count game, after all he did, all year (years?) Crap, I’ve hated Notre Dame, and Dan Devine, ever since. (Hey, it was made into a movie, so it must be true, right?) [/QUOTE] After all the money that Rudy has made on his worthless play, there is no reason to hate either Notre Dame or the late Coach Devine. Why the hate? ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/17 "2007-09-23T23:01:39Z")
I hate the Irish because they refuse to join a conference. They are the only remaining independent team in D-IA football. Most of their traditional games are against the Big Eleven; if they would just join the conference, it could be split into two divisions and have a championship game like all of the other major conferences. Instead, ND continues to get an independent TV contract, thereby keeping them from joining a conference. Plus, the media sucks them off like a Thai whore to a lonely GI. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/18 "2007-09-23T23:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I think it’s really more like “everyone else thinks those bastards are better than the rest of us.” [/QUOTE] Yeah. They’re perrenially overrated. They get better bowl games than they deserve; the silver lining of this is that they get destroyed in their bowl game. But for me, I hate them because that’s how my father raised me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/19 "2007-09-23T23:26:26Z")
_wrong account_ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114/20 "2007-09-23T23:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] But if you hate Notre Dame, well, I’d love to hear something resembling a rational reason for it. Something they’ve actually done? Or just a vague, nebulous, unfounded feeling that “those bastards think they’re better than the rest of us”? [/QUOTE] I went to Catholic high school in Chicago, with a large Irish-American population and Notre Dame supporters in spades. Notre Dame fans and Yankees fans are perhaps the two most obnoxious groups of team supporters I’ve ever met. Is it a fair reason to hate Notre Dame? I don’t know, and I don’t particularly care. But for me, it’s growing up surrounded by arrogant, insufferable Notre Dame fans. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crime-and-punishment-or-the-eternal-suffering-of-notre-dame/420114.md?page=2)