# "Criminalizing Illegal Aliens"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 2, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130 "2006-05-02T18:07:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/1 "2006-05-02T18:07:11Z")
I have heard that over and over again in the news these past few days, and it grates on me to no end. In case it isn’t obvious, you can’t criminalize something that is already a crime. What’s next, criminalizing murderers? How about criminalizing rapists? Maybe thieves? Because I’ll tell you what, it sure is good to know that they’re making it illegal to be illegal. :rolleyes:
No matter what your stance on this topic may be, the only thing we should be criminalizing here is the butchering of the English language by supposedly educated people.
Of course, some of you may say that the government is trying to tighten laws relating to illegal aliens, and that is what they really mean. Fine. They can say that if they wish. But what they’re saying now is unspeakably stupid. And while I’m being unspeakably pedantic right now, It’s the little things like this that drive me to distraction and make me wonder who writes this stuff and why they still have a job when your average second grader makes more sense.
No, I take that back. Because of the proliferation of idiocy such as this, your average second grader grows up thinking that this is the norm. God help me, for if this is the caliber of writing I have to look forward to for the next 50 years I’m going to go stark raving mad.
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### Author:  [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/2 "2006-05-02T18:17:57Z")
Proponents of an open border policy talk this way to make those who oppose their attempts to blue the distinction between citizen and non-citizen seem cruel and heartless.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/3 "2006-05-02T18:20:03Z")
Good rant, **Airman**. That really is a stupid thing to say.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/4 "2006-05-02T18:20:17Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#):
>
> I have heard that over and over again in the news these past few days, and it grates on me to no end. In case it isn’t obvious, you can’t criminalize something that is already a crime. What’s next, criminalizing murderers? How about criminalizing rapists? Maybe thieves? Because I’ll tell you what, it sure is good to know that they’re making it illegal to be illegal. :rolleyes:
How do you criminalize something illegal? Easy: by starting to enforce the law. This is a usage I’ve heard for over a decade (originally I heard it as part of dicussions to decriminalize marijuana, not by making it legal, but by devoting no police resources to prosecuting its use).
Daniel
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/5 "2006-05-02T18:31:13Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#):
>
> How do you criminalize something illegal? Easy: by starting to enforce the law. This is a usage I’ve heard for over a decade (originally I heard it as part of dicussions to decriminalize marijuana, not by making it legal, but by devoting no police resources to prosecuting its use).
There’s another way: by keeping it illegal, but having no penalty, or a merely nominal penalty (such as a small fine) for breaches of the law.
But, while some things that immigrants do may be illegal, I’m not sure they are a crime – or if they are a crime, the only penalty is deportation, which enforces the law, but isn’t really a penalty like imprisonment or a fine. If a burglar is forced to hand his illegally acquired goods back to their owners, that’s not a penalty either.
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/6 "2006-05-02T18:32:13Z")
My favorite catchphrases from all this…undocumented worker. No, they are an illegal alien. Undocumented immigrant. No, they are an illegal alien. Even, illegal immigrant. NO they are an illegal alien. Using the word immigrant to me implies a legal process, not sneaking across a border.
Illegal = not a citizen or having other legal standing such as a visa. Alien = citizen of a foreign country. It is the correct way to put it.
It’s not diminishing their personhood to use the correct terms.
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### Author:  [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/7 "2006-05-02T18:34:47Z")
My favorite had to be a young woman giving an obviously impassioned speech. “They call us ALIENS like we’re from outer space”
I’d love to make some snappy comment or whatever but it just leaves me speechless every time.
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/8 "2006-05-02T18:40:08Z")
Thank you for this dose of sanity in a bizarro world.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/9 "2006-05-02T18:50:57Z")
> [@Antinor01](#):
>
> My favorite catchphrases from all this…undocumented worker. No, they are an illegal alien. Undocumented immigrant. No, they are an illegal alien. Even, illegal immigrant. NO they are an illegal alien. Using the word immigrant to me implies a legal process, not sneaking across a border.
>
> Illegal = not a citizen or having other legal standing such as a visa. Alien = citizen of a foreign country. It is the correct way to put it.
>
> It’s not diminishing their personhood to use the correct terms.
Never let it be said that political correctness is confined to the left! This is thinking very parallel to the PC stuff I sometimes hear from professors. Makes me craze.
Daniel
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/10 "2006-05-02T19:18:20Z")
I’ve never heard the phrase “criminalizing illegal aliens”. Can we have a link?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/11 "2006-05-02T19:30:42Z")
**Airman** , you may be thinking of the recently-dropped GOP plan, led by Sensenbrenner, to make being an illegal immigrant a \*felony \* (aw, hell, [here’s the Fox story](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191429,00.html)). Naturally they’re blaming the Democrats for this fiasco.
That provision may have been an attempt at deterrence (which would be futile), or simple, vindictive, feelgoodism, or election-year grandstanding, or simply to prevent any of them from ever voting Democratic. Take your pick.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/12 "2006-05-02T19:38:12Z")
[
> [@Giles](#):
>
> But, while some things that immigrants do may be illegal, I’m not sure they are a crime – or if they are a crime, the only penalty is deportation, which enforces the law, but isn’t really a penalty like imprisonment or a fine. If a burglar is forced to hand his illegally acquired goods back to their owners, that’s not a penalty either.
That’s not true. Illegally entering the US is prohibited by Title 8, section 1325 (a) and may be punished by a fine and imprisonment of up to six months in prison for a first offense, and up to two years for subsequent offenses. The individual entering illegally also may be liable for civil penalties between $50 and $250.
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### Author:  [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/13 "2006-05-02T19:39:00Z")
When I hear “criminalizing illegal aliens,” I take it to be referring to the GOP effort, in the House and various states, to make it felony, instead of the current misdemeanor. Kinda like “decriminalizing” marijuana doesn’t mean _legalizing_ it, per se.
OP: -1, Pedantic
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/14 "2006-05-02T19:39:36Z")
> [@Antinor01](#):
>
> My favorite catchphrases from all this…undocumented worker.
“Undocumented Worker” sounds like you’re talking about somebody who forgot his ID badge that morning.
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/15 "2006-05-02T19:45:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> **Airman** , you may be thinking of the recently-dropped GOP plan, led by Sensenbrenner, to make being an illegal immigrant a \*felony \* (aw, hell, [here’s the Fox story](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191429,00.html)). Naturally they’re blaming the Democrats for this fiasco.
The article notes that even legal immigrants may get smacked with felony charges, including for things so minor as not reporting a change of address to the proper authorities. This bill (passed by the House in December) was my assumption about the “criminalization” phrase being used recently.
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### Author:  [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/16 "2006-05-02T19:51:18Z")
Why not just allow them join the armed forces for a hitch, and then when completed allow them citizenship. You know, like the French Foreign Legion does. Then we could kill two birds with one stone over the troop levels in Iraq and illegal immigration…or is that flawed thinking?
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/17 "2006-05-02T19:51:48Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#):
>
> That’s not true. Illegally entering the US is prohibited by Title 8, section 1325 (a) and may be punished by a fine and imprisonment of up to six months in prison for a first offense, and up to two years for subsequent offenses. The individual entering illegally also may be liable for civil penalties between $50 and $250.
Thanls for the correction. So I guess the next question is, How many illegal aliens do time in jail in the US? I’m guessing not a lot.
(And I wonder what would happen to the US prison system if an extra 11 million or so did time in there, as some in Congress and elsewhere seem to be implying ought to happen – perhaps along with the millions of people who employ them, etc. The size of the problem suggests that coming down hard like this isn’t going to help anyone – though perhaps charging the illegals at least twice what we legal aliens have to pay, and making them wait at least twice as long, might suggest that the US does not completely condone illegality.)
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/18 "2006-05-02T22:54:26Z")
As usual, the Republicans and their stooges are totally misrepresenting reality. [From the LA Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-outlook16apr16,1,6553805.column?coll=la-headlines-politics)
> [@](#):
>
> It is a crime to cross the border without authorization. But “unlawful presence” in the United States isn’t a crime; it’s a civil violation of immigration laws. In practice, when illegal immigrants are found in the U.S., the government almost always deports them through civil proceedings rather than attempting an expensive criminal prosecution for the border crossing, which is often difficult to prove.
Now the Republicans passed a bill to make unlawful presence a _felony_. Democrats objected to unlawful presence being a misdemeanor OR a felony.
> [@](#):
>
> Hastert and Frist charged that House Democrats voted to oppose “efforts to _reduce_ the crime of unlawful presence … from a felony to a misdemeanor.” In fact, House Democrats opposed an effort to\* increase\* the penalty for unlawful presence from a civil violation to a criminal misdemeanor.
How typical of the Republicans. Use their majority to pass an offensive law, and then try to shift the blame to Democrats.
From the [Las Vegas Sun](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2006/apr/19/566655345.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Now the Republican National Committee is running an ad on Spanish-language radio in Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix and Tucson attacking Democrats for voting to “treat millions of hardworking immigrants as felons.”
A shameless and baseless smear campaign by the Republicans. I don’t think the target is buying it.
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### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/19 "2006-05-03T00:40:29Z")
I agree that there’s a lot of semantic silliness clustered around this problem.
However, I found out today that there’s a big fat Catch-22 that keeps the illegals from ever coming in legally. Our system allows 5,000 legal immigrants from Mexico yearly. Highly educated or highly skilled people get first chance. So, we get 5,000 doctors, engineers and toolmakers. Every Mexican who wants to come here to clean houses, bus tables, or pick tomatoes **has no choice but to enter illegally.** Everybody talks about illegal aliens who come here to do the “jobs Americans won’t do,” but it’s impossible for them to come in legally.
We have thousands of places willing to hire them, so we turn a blind eye when the major chicken processors close plants so their illegals can go march. Will the INS agents be visiting Perdue and Tyson tomorrow? Ha.
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminalizing-illegal-aliens/355130/20 "2006-05-03T01:08:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> Now the Republicans passed a bill to make unlawful presence a _felony_. Democrats objected to unlawful presence being a misdemeanor OR a felony.
Dunno why you say this like it’s a good thing, Bob. Unlawful presence _should_ be a felony, and subject to immediate and summary deportation. Good for the Republicans for doing this.
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