# Criminals who got what they deserved...or precious snowflakes tragically murdered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209 "2012-11-26T22:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/301 "2012-11-30T16:08:58Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Yes, as a society we should just go back to death sentence for all criminals. Makes sense. Read what I just posted in reply to Monty. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/302 "2012-11-30T16:10:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I did not claim it did. In fact, I indicated that I’m good with TCOM being prosecuted for the killings. Lack of heartache that two thieves chose to burglarize a crazy man and paid with their lives in no way indicates that I consider burglary a capital crime. I didn’t say you said it did. I merely indicated (a) the fact that I can muster sympathy for two people murdered regardless of their criminality and (b) why I am able to muster sympathy for said persons. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/303 "2012-11-30T16:15:47Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’m right with you. The Crazy Old Man’s initial shot at each intruder was 100% justified; it was when he set himself up as judge and executioner over a crippled assailant rather than allow society’s justice to take over that he became as much or more of a menace than the thieves. Or maybe he still feared for his life. Shooting to disable is the most cartoonish action movie crap suggestion possible. If there is an intruder in your house and they are still alive your life is in danger. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/304 "2012-11-30T16:18:54Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Read what I just posted in reply to Monty. But you ignore the rest of what everyone is saying. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/305 "2012-11-30T16:19:23Z")
No way he still feared for his life. I’m wondering how many people actually know the details of the story vs pulling stuff from nether regions. The man admitted himself that for one of the murders, he put his gun under the girl’s chin for a “good clean finishing shot”. There’s no way you can still fear for your life and have the presence of mind to do that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/306 "2012-11-30T16:21:02Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Or maybe he still feared for his life. If he feared for his life, why did he drag the girl across the floor? Why didn’t he immediately call the police in case there were other assailants prowling around? He certainly didn’t ACT like someone in fear for his life. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/307 "2012-11-30T16:21:48Z")
If you say so, i must vow to your experience since you must have been in that situation hundreds of times in order to be so certain as to what you would feel. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/308 "2012-11-30T16:25:30Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > If he feared for his life, why did he drag the girl across the floor? Why didn’t he immediately call the police in case there were other assailants prowling around? He certainly didn’t ACT like someone in fear for his life. Because some old guy who is scared to death is going to always act in the most rational way possible right? None of us know how he felt, all i know is I personally would be terrified until i was sure the intruders were dead. Maybe you Rambos are used to being in life and death situations know a lot better than me or a terrified old man. Why did he drag the girl across the floor and do a coup de grace on her? to me “because she was still alive” is a perfectly valid answer. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/309 "2012-11-30T16:26:44Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > If you say so, i must vow to your experience since you must have been in that situation hundreds of times in order to be so certain as to what you would feel. From my experience with patients and animals, once they are hurt/sedated enough that I wouldn’t mind approaching them alone, dragging them across a floor (I don’t do that to patients, promise), and doing anything like putting a gun to their heads, I am no longer concerned about any harm they could do me. Otherwise I’d stay the hell away. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/310 "2012-11-30T16:27:58Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > But you ignore the rest of what everyone is saying. What else is there to say? I’ve already posted to this thread several times. There aren’t any good guys in the story or any innocent victims. Being a criminal is a risky thing. Sometimes you can make a disproportionately big score, sometimes you can lose disproportionately big. The thieves lost big. I don’t feel bad for them. The Crazy Old Man committed homicide and is going to be prosecuted for it. I don’t feel bad for him either. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/311 "2012-11-30T16:28:05Z")
I’m willing to excuse several of the shots, but the last one is clear cut murder. “Because she’s still alive” is NOT a valid answer according legally or even morally. We have a system of laws for a reason, including the idea we don’t go vigilante on other people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/312 "2012-11-30T16:29:33Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Because some old guy who is scared to death is going to always act in the most rational way possible right? None of us know how he felt, all i know is I personally would be terrified until i was sure the intruders were dead. If you can’t keep your head in such a situation, you have no business owning a firearm. Perhaps at his trial he can convince the jury that his actions were the result of blind panic and he can get off with a lighter sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/313 "2012-11-30T16:29:57Z")
Also, since when does being 64 make you “an old man”? Everyone keeps calling him that, but that’s not even retirement age! I know many mid-sixties men who could physically take on teenagers without a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/314 "2012-11-30T16:31:13Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > Also, since when does being 64 make you “an old man”? Everyone keeps calling him that, but that’s not even retirement age! I know many mid-sixties men who could physically take on teenagers without a problem. And I know some who can’t. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/315 "2012-11-30T16:36:35Z")
They were burglars. They got shot. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/316 "2012-11-30T16:42:10Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > Also, since when does being 64 make you “an old man”? Everyone keeps calling him that, but that’s not even retirement age! I know many mid-sixties men who could physically take on teenagers without a problem. I don’t see how this is relevant. Nobody thinks it was okay to kill the kids because, hey, old dude. Also, being 64 has made you “an old man” - assuming you’re male - since pretty much ever. Statistically, he’s only got about 10 years to live. ---
**Author:** ![emoticorpse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/22d042/32.png) [@emoticorpse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emoticorpse)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/317 "2012-11-30T16:45:45Z")
So 64 is middle aged then? What else should we call him and still make sense? middle aged? I just googled up 64 years old and went to images and you know what I see old people any older and it’d be fair to call them senior citizens.’ Yeah off topic but that’s it for me on the age thing… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/318 "2012-11-30T16:46:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > They were burglars. They got shot. Case closed. They were human beings. They sufferred great pain. They were murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/319 "2012-11-30T16:47:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What else is there to say? I’ve already posted to this thread several times. There aren’t any good guys in the story or any innocent victims. Being a criminal is a risky thing. Sometimes you can make a disproportionately big score, sometimes you can lose disproportionately big. The thieves lost big. I don’t feel bad for them. The Crazy Old Man committed homicide and is going to be prosecuted for it. I don’t feel bad for him either. Which is worse-burglary, or murder? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/320 "2012-11-30T16:53:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which is worse-burglary, or murder? Murder and I don’t believe I ever said otherwise. Remember, though, that at this point all we are talking about is emotional response to the events. I don’t think that whose feelings are right and whose are wrong is going to be an avenue of discussion that will produce much but negative emotional response to each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209.md?page=17)