# Criminals who got what they deserved...or precious snowflakes tragically murdered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209 "2012-11-26T22:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/21 "2012-11-27T00:08:48Z")
The kids did a very bad thing. But the guy is definitely a creep. Why would he tell the police about killing the girl right after she laughed? Frankly, I don’t care what happens to him after reading that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/22 "2012-11-27T00:09:52Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Why is there any debate? > > The guy incapacitating the burglars was selfdefence, excecuting was cold-blooded murder. > And IMHO the guy knew he screwed up, that’s why he didn’t call the cops. > [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Up for dabate: Were the teens criminals who got what they deserved…or precious snowflakes tragically murdered? i’ll have you know the OP does not allow for nuanced thinking on the matter. either the kids were precious flowers, plucked too early or “eh, fuck 'em.” no contextual complexities! i’m failing to see the premise nor the need for a binary system, **snow pea**. they weren’t innocent kids, they were criminals…who seemed to have broken into the wrong lunatic’s home. as said shooting them as they came down the stairs–MAYBE self defense. the rest–psycho. making it worse: putting them on a tarp and leaving them for a day before alerting anyone. what the holy hell do you do–go upstairs and fall asleep for the night, knowing two dead people are leaking out in your basement?? who in their right mind could do that? ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/23 "2012-11-27T00:12:37Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Also, from what they’ve revealed, I’m betting the second girl went down to help her cousin, not because she was high on bath salts (was that even reported???). Yeah, I don’t see that. **Snow Pea** , were you just guessing when you suggested the second girl was “hopped up”? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/24 "2012-11-27T00:21:47Z")
Unless there is some weird nuance to state law, the article describes a man who confessed to murder. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/25 "2012-11-27T00:26:30Z")
Two thoughts 1. Definately murder with the execution-style killing after wounding them. 2. We live in a country where it is better to kill the intruder than wound them. Otherwise the homeowner will be sued by the perps for assault or mental distress. Final thought: If you are going to shoot an intruder, kill them with the first shot. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/26 "2012-11-27T00:29:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Unless there is some weird nuance to state law, the article describes a man who confessed to murder. True, this isn’t Texas; “Some people need killin’” doesn’t apply here. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/27 "2012-11-27T00:37:43Z")
Maybe after the old man is locked up in prison, they can turn his house into a kind of community center, where the neighborhood kids can hang out, work thru the grief and anguish for their martyred friends, rap about all of their anxious, conflicted feelings and maybe cook up a little meth on the weekends… ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/28 "2012-11-27T00:38:39Z")
When assholes collide…I don’t see any good guys or any innocent victims, either. Two thieves dead on the floor and the shooter locked away forever. Society wins. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/29 "2012-11-27T00:46:06Z")
This sounds like a Quinton Tarantino movie to me ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/30 "2012-11-27T00:47:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Any chance that the second girl cared about her cousin and was going back to help her? I am nitpicking, but I thought it was a boy and a girl, the boy getting shot first. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/31 "2012-11-27T01:01:38Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This sounds like a Quinton Tarantino movie to me it totally does. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/32 "2012-11-27T01:13:23Z")
Looks like a pair of young petty criminals ran into a murderer to me. But no, they didn’t “get what they deserved”; trespassing and possible burglary are nowhere near deserving of death. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/33 "2012-11-27T01:16:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > We live in a country where it is better to kill the intruder than wound them. This is pretty much an urban legend. > [@April\_R](#): > > I am nitpicking, but I thought it was a boy and a girl, the boy getting shot first. It was. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/34 "2012-11-27T01:48:28Z")
He murdered those kids and he knew it. He’s 64 - far from a dottering old man - and a State Department retiree. I think of when I pepper sprayed a guy - I missed his face but stopped him from what he was doing. He challenged me to spray him again but I couldn’t do it. The threat was over, there was no reason to spray him again. I truly believe if someone was threatening me or my family in my home, I would be able to shoot them. If I didn’t kill them with the first shot, I certainly wouldn’t be able to administer a “finishing shot” like this guy describes he did! Jeebus. He’s off his rocker. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/35 "2012-11-27T01:57:29Z")
Jesus, that’s fucking horrible. I can’t read the description of how he related the incident to the authorities without thinking he is one screwed up old man. He describes blowing a teenage girl’s head off like putting an animal out of its suffering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/36 "2012-11-27T02:09:18Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This sounds like a Quinton Tarantino movie to me Yep. A couple of petty crooks made the mistake of robbing a psycho. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/37 "2012-11-27T02:12:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > When assholes collide…I don’t see any good guys or any innocent victims, either. Two thieves dead on the floor and the shooter locked away forever. Society wins. I was trying to put that same sentiment in words. The kids are scum. You don’t break into someone’s house and steal from them if you are a decent human being. We are better off with them dead. On the other hand, you shouldn’t go out of your way to kill someone if a lesser amount of force is sufficient to stop a crime and he should be locked away. If we did this another couple hundred thousand times society would be better off for it. Less thieves and less trigger happy old men. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/38 "2012-11-27T02:13:09Z")
Murder. The only thing the guy has going for him is it wasn’t premeditated. As to whether the kids got what they deserved… I think that’s a question that can’t be answered. Had he shot them dead with on shot as they descended the stairs, maybe we’d say they got what they deserved. Does it really matter that it was later? I’m not comfortable saying any one “deserves” to die. It’s more a matter of whether the killing was justified or not. In this case, no. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/39 "2012-11-27T02:18:56Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I was trying to put that same sentiment in words. The kids are scum. You don’t break into someone’s house and steal from them if you are a decent human being. We are better off with them dead. This is a disgusting thing to say. Society would actually be better off if people who expressed these kinds of awful sentiments weren’t around. But I wouldn’t wish death on them, because that’s sick. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/40 "2012-11-27T02:54:23Z")
I think an easy way to determine if they got what they deserved is to ask what we, as a society, would want done to them had they been caught by the police unharmed. If it’s less than the death penalty then no, they didn’t get what they deserved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209.md?page=3)