# Criminals who got what they deserved...or precious snowflakes tragically murdered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209 "2012-11-26T22:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/441 "2014-05-18T20:54:57Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Why say ‘Lying in wait’? That is just trying to put a bad spin on something, and you blamed well know it. > Was he actually lying? Tell the truth. Was he sitting? Was he standing? > If he wasn’t lying, then he wasn’t ‘lying in wait’, was he? So, there must be some reason to use the term. I submit that you are using the term to try and help build your case, since it is traditionally used for malefactors. > > And, he \*was \*going about his business in his home. Whatever he wants to do _in his home_ is his business, not that it mattered to the felons. > [@Kobal2](#): > > A man who records himself talking to himself all night, setting a trap then giddily murdering teenagers and _doesn’t even erase the tape_ has mental issues ? The hell you say. Yeah, I gotta say, **handsomeharry** , if you just listen to the linked audio file, you’ll see that this is not just a simple case of some guy working on his model railroad in the basement when the hopheads came in. I know the file is long (about 25 min IIRC), but it is _very_ illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/442 "2014-05-18T21:33:12Z")
FWIW I only listened to the 5 min. Cliff Notes version myself, but it’s still creepy and disturbing as all hell. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/443 "2014-05-18T21:37:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > A man who records himself talking to himself all night, setting a trap then giddily murdering teenagers and _doesn’t even erase the tape_ has mental issues ? The hell you say. Did Nixon have mental issues ? [Not that he would have hurt a fly personally.] Like those mad old presidents, maybe the loon felt his life should be taped for posterity… _**[Years later, former](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_White_House_tapes)** White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig speculated that the erasures may conceivably have been caused by Nixon himself. According to Haig, the President was spectacularly inept at understanding and operating mechanical devices, and in the course of reviewing the tape in question, he may have caused the erasures by fumbling with the recorder’s controls; whether inadvertently or intentionally, Haig could not say._ Haig really was the _Smiler With A Knife_, wasn’t he ? ---
**Author:** ![Robertfchew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@Robertfchew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robertfchew)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/444 "2014-05-18T22:13:42Z")
You don’t know whose house you are breaking into. Dudes a psycho but once you break in you lose all rights as far as im concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/445 "2014-05-18T22:24:40Z")
> [@Robertfchew](#): > > You don’t know whose house you are breaking into. Dudes a psycho but once you break in you lose all rights as far as im concerned. Luckily, the law doesn’t agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/446 "2014-05-18T23:02:25Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I am very, very grateful that I never ran across such a home-owner in my lawless years. Hmm, you should be? _deserve_ has nothing to do with it, but you really think anyone is going to feel bad about criminals dying while committing crimes? Good on you for becoming a contributing member of society, did you pay for any of your crimes or do you think just living a normal life makes up for all the bad you did? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/447 "2014-05-18T23:15:57Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > but you really think anyone is going to feel bad about criminals dying while committing crimes? Their parents, relatives, loved ones, children perhaps ? Sometimes their killers as well, when they are burdened with a soul. It’s a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he’s got, and all he’s ever going to have. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/448 "2014-05-19T06:54:12Z")
In as pro second amendment as they come and pro stand your ground however, this man murdered those kids and should pay the price. He was completely justified in shooting when the one came down the stairs. He was justified in shooting the second one when she came down the strairs. If he would have left it at that we wouldn’t be having this debate because he wouldn’t have been charged. But the follow up shots were plain and simple murder. Guns are a right and unfortunately there are occasions when someone who shouldn’t own one does. Same with cars, knives and anything else that can be used wrongly. In this case he deserves what the law hands down to him. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/449 "2014-05-19T18:00:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > _deserve_ has nothing to do with it, > [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he’s got, and all he’s ever going to have. But, I was building a house! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/450 "2014-05-19T19:26:01Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Howdy! My name is **Typo Negative**. Howya doing? > > Now that we are acquainted, you now know someone who, as a teen, did the very things the two teens were killed for. > > I gotta tell ya, it’s a little disconcerting to read people in this very thread say I deserved to **die** for this. (I know _you_ didn’t) That _my_ death would have been OK with them. I’m not saying you deserved to die but if you are unknown to me and break into my house uninvited, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t invite you to tea and politely inquire as to you intentions and whether or not you have any fire arms. Nay, instead I will assume you are willing to injure/kill me and my family and so forgive me if I go for the one-shot kill. And yes it would be OK with me because I have to assume it’s you or me in those circumstances. But assuming I just incapacitate you? Then by all means execution is unwarranted. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209/451 "2014-05-19T19:54:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I’m not saying you deserved to die but if you are unknown to me and break into my house uninvited, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t invite you to tea and politely inquire as to you intentions and whether or not you have any fire arms. Nay, instead I will assume you are willing to injure/kill me and my family and so forgive me if I go for the one-shot kill. And yes it would be OK with me because I have to assume it’s you or me in those circumstances. > > But assuming I just incapacitate you? Then by all means execution is unwarranted. In this particular case, the guy drove his own van away specifically to draw the would-be burglars in. Kids who specifically pick empty houses to crack for a cheap and easy score don’t typically pack artillery. Even if they did, he shot before he could see whether they were armed or not. And even if they _were_, considering he’d drawn them in in the first place, how about, I dunno, warn the police that shit’s about to go down ? Well, the guy in this case deliberately did not call the police, and explains why in his creepy confession : he didn’t want to be afraid that the kids were going to come for revenge when they were eventually let out of prison. So he opted to kill them instead - that was the plan from the start. Because evidently that’s rational and doesn’t beget violent revenge at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criminals-who-got-what-they-deserved-or-precious-snowflakes-tragically-murdered/642209.md?page=22)