# Crimson Glyph forbidden thread: **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 30, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861 "2009-04-30T16:57:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/161 "2009-06-02T05:33:02Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > He can’t be BH because he was in a masonry with Ed who flipped town… So unless this game is gastard then he has to be town… but his actions show that he must have been sinfected. > > So I guess I did hand him one less pure person in the game. But at this point… with the mess that this game is… broken mechanics… nonstandard role PMs… partial reveals on death… I won’t understand who is who and what is going on until one of the scum factions win and the setup is revealed… so where is the fun in playing? I’m not gonna play in a game that isn’t fun. You asked to play the game, three times even. And the game is far from gastard; it has a few small twists, rystro for example, but nothing horribly unusual. And you neglect the parsimonious explanation: Meeko’s actions show that he is a bad player. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/162 "2009-06-02T05:34:05Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > This game actually wasn’t that complicated, from everything that has been revealed thus far. And non-standardized role PMs are not uncommon. So, really, you’re complaining about nothing. The biggest problem this game was the refuse of certain players (Meeko most notably) to play the f-ing game. Hardly the mod’s fault. > > I think that bailing like this is really bad form. The game was set up for a bloody, complicated, and potential cool endgame. Town might even have had a chance, depending on exactly what was going on with the sinners. When I look at what has been revealed, I can see how the original set up would have made for a really fun and complicated game. But nonstandardized role PMs is not something that I consider common place in mafia… the only reason behind it is to cancel out the advantage the town would gain in the event of a mass claim. Normally if forced into a mass claim its harder for scum to false claim because they don’t know exactly how their PM should be worded until a town claims. Having nonstandardized role PMs pretty much guarantees we are gonna nitpick on the person whose role pm doesn’t match ours in its wording. And again… the game was no longer fun… so I quit… What is there left to do in the game but sit and wait for myself to either be killed or resinfected or lose? There is no point in me continuing to read the game… ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/163 "2009-06-02T05:41:06Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > You asked to play the game, three times even. And the game is far from gastard; it has a few small twists, rystro for example, but nothing horribly unusual. > > And you neglect the parsimonious explanation: **Meeko’s actions show that he is a bad player.** Maybe this is the reason I can’t find the joy in the game anymore… I’m used to disagreeing with the actions of other players and not liking their playstyles even… shit I can even get along fine with Peeker… but Meeko is a whole different story. The game is no longer enjoyable… I suggested to Pede in the main thread that he could leave me in the game for all intents and purposes so as to not change the state of the game… but I won’t be playing anymore. Yes I asked to play multiple times… but usually when the town loses the game ends. What’s the point in playing a game I already know I lost and am no longer enjoying? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/164 "2009-06-02T08:27:08Z")
Well, I guess the point is that quitting is in and of itself anti-town. So is assuming Town has lost. The problem is that other people are counting on you. As y’all have tried to explain to Meeko thousands of times, this is a TEAM game. If you quit, you are making other people lose. People who might actually be enjoying the game. The only way around this is a sub. I’m thinking about volunteering myself, but I’m not sure as this game is pretty complicated for a noob (well, I played one game and got lynched day one as the town doctor. Yeah, not very good.) But I have been following it prety well. Telecontar seems to be the one most wanting to play, though. As he has a strategy. Chronos looks like he might want to play, too. If you are town, I don’t see a problem with a sub that was also town. Finally, if Meeko has made this game so unenjoyable that you want to quit, just announce to Meeko that you are putting him on your ignore list, because you think it would be better for town. Or just ignore him anyways. At least town would then have a chance. **Oh, and Ped, please read this post. I’m not sure what part should be in green.** ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/165 "2009-06-02T10:44:26Z")
**paul** , I can’t say I blame you for quitting. You had it worst in the game than most of us, what with all the weight that carries over from being subbed in a game you were already killed in. Add a psycho **Meeko** to the mix and yeah, it grates on your psyche. But to have you quit is disappointing. You could have just taken a sabbatical, stopped postingg, ignore Meeko and wait to see how things panned out. If the game is still going then it is possible for Town to win, though if a Townie were to be modkilled at this stage, that _would_ be the end of it. [Hollywood moment]Don’t let my death… mean… nothing.[/HM] (Okay okay, so I didn’t “die” as such, but still, dramatic). ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/166 "2009-06-02T12:56:09Z")
I think you did a fine job, Allwalker. And I’d honestly love to participate more in the Meeko discussion, but since I know whether or not he’s been sinfected–since I’m fully spoiled, I can’t really say much. All I will say is that he’s played horribly this game. It’s why the BH have kept him around. They love the distraction he’s provided. He’s the first (at-one-point-)confirmed town I’ve ever seen become the scum MVP. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/167 "2009-06-02T13:18:44Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Having nonstandardized role PMs pretty much guarantees we are gonna nitpick on the person whose role pm doesn’t match ours in its wording. Case in point, me as Wario the Town Detective in Super Mario. I had managed to hit Town and 3rd party in every investigation I performed. By the time the end game rolled around, I had a huge pool of confirmed-by-me townies, which sealed scum’s fate. (Yes, the Detective’s main job is to confirm town, not reveal scum, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, unless it’s situation specific.) However, Sinjin, who I wanted lynched since she came across as the most scummy who was not a town-confirmed attacked the fact that my PM was much more wordy than the rest of the PM’s in the mass claim. So clearly I must have made it up. Never mind the fact that I pointed out the other full PM revealed that game was also by a town power-role (well, okay Mitey wasn’t a power role in the traditional sense) confirmed via death. Fortunately, town was smart enough to realize that when someone claims detective and they have outed scum, unless you have a damn good reason to suspect the claimed detective is lying (rather than vague insinuations like we had here and in SMB), you go with the claimed detective. Particularly when that detective claimed of his own volition rather than under pressure of lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/168 "2009-06-02T13:51:54Z")
Chuck me some spoilers Ped. I kinda want to go see the BH’s glee at the way Meeko has played. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/169 "2009-06-02T15:13:17Z")
I think Town can still win. Assuming a 5-3-1 town-BH-original sinner split pre-lynch, the sinners’ chance of winning basically depends on whether the BH’s end up killing their last original sinner, and on whether the infected sinners (if any) can still infect new people if the originals are dead. If they can, then I have a hard time seeing any way for Town to win. If they can’t, then the sinners are basically screwed if they lose their Original. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/170 "2009-06-02T15:20:04Z")
Also, Mahaloth is basically openly gloating now. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/171 "2009-06-02T16:06:30Z")
And Meeko has arrived at the conclusion that the main problem Town has faced in the game is that the other Town players can’t handle how awesome he is. (Can’t… look … away … such a train wreck). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/172 "2009-06-02T16:52:53Z")
**pede** , may I recommend that you re-replace **paul** with **BillMC**? Unless he’s already been spoilered, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/173 "2009-06-02T16:53:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Also, Mahaloth is basically openly gloating now. Indeed. Still, as ed commented near the beginning, I’m not sure the taste of victory overwhelms the taste of meeko’s balls 😉 > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > And Meeko has arrived at the conclusion that the main problem Town has faced in the game is that the other Town players can’t handle how awesome he is. > > (Can’t… look … away … such a train wreck). Yeah. And the blackhearts agree with him :). ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/174 "2009-06-02T17:40:09Z")
So here’s the question. The game ends. The BHs win(seems very, very likely at this point.) Meeko comes in here, the spoiler threads, the scum boards etc and has a good read. Does he realize that he played terribly or does he blame Town for not understanding his genius? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/175 "2009-06-02T17:48:32Z")
Hopefully he realizes that he played terribly and then apologizes to everyone else instead of thinking he deserves an apology like he says here: > [@Meeko](#): > > The real problem of it all, is that, I think Paul figured out for himself, that I am not sinner. > > He could of at LEAST made a post where he apologized to me. I can’t help him understand if he just shuts down. I mean, sheesh, you don’t have anything going on here that any one else can understand, regardless of you ‘helping them’. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/176 "2009-06-02T18:42:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Finally, if Meeko has made this game so unenjoyable that you want to quit, just announce to Meeko that you are putting him on your ignore list, because you think it would be better for town. Or just ignore him anyways. At least town would then have a chance. You can’t just ignore a player in the game when it nears end game. Not unless you KNOW they are Blackheart. Meeko was supposed to be Confirmed Town. His actions had him playing like a Blackheart, but since that was impossible I could only figure that he must have converted to a different wincon. Trying to understand how he could still be town by understanding that he is just playing really badly doesn’t help me at all when I am trying to figure out how close we are to end game. My goal was to try and convince the Blackhearts that they needed to NK a sinner in order to prevent them from stealing the win… but when I tried to lay out the game I couldn’t place Meeko… add in the fact that I couldn’t for the life of me find where the wincons were posted by Pede and I had to work off memory… and it was just a big mess… ultimately, I believe the town wincon stated that we win when all non-pure players are eliminated. That would mean killing all sinners and sinverted… and all blackheart. I can’t find a way to balance the original setup that would put town currently in the position that they still control the vote… so In essence we lost. > [@AllWalker](#): > > But to have you quit is disappointing. You could have just taken a sabbatical, stopped postingg, ignore Meeko and wait to see how things panned out. **If the game is still going then it is possible for Town to win** , though if a Townie were to be modkilled at this stage, that _would_ be the end of it. Normally I would agree with you… if the game is still going on then town can win. But in games with three factions it isn’t necessarily true. Town could have already lost and the game is just playing out to see if the sinners can correctly sinfect the right people to beat the blackhearts to a win. I believe that this is the case… ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/177 "2009-06-02T19:09:07Z")
[QUOTE=paulwhoisaghost;11204455 Normally I would agree with you… if the game is still going on then town can win. But in games with three factions it isn’t necessarily true. Town could have already lost and the game is just playing out to see if the sinners can correctly sinfect the right people to beat the blackhearts to a win. I believe that this is the case…[/QUOTE] Unless the blackhearts kill the sinners. As they need to, if they want to win. The blackhearts want to night kill the sinners, the town and sinners want to day kill the blackguards. So long as there are more sinners+town than blackhearts and more nights than sinners, the town can win. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/178 "2009-06-02T19:26:02Z")
Right. Town does NOT control their own destiny - perfect town play from here on out could leave the situation of one town and one original sinner going into the last night, in which case the sinner infects the townie and even if he prays, the townie is still infected and the sinners still win. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/179 "2009-06-02T21:07:10Z")
And perfect play could also lead to a Town win, depending on the number of Sinners. Since we don’t know how many Sinners there are, it’s not time for Town to give up yet. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861/180 "2009-06-03T03:48:06Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > So here’s the question. The game ends. The BHs win(seems very, very likely at this point.) Meeko comes in here, the spoiler threads, the scum boards etc and has a good read. Does he realize that he played terribly or does he blame Town for not understanding his genius? You’re talking about a guy whose main argument against me was that I “edited” my PM, then after I was gone blamed me for not inserting “You are Town” into my PM. Personally I can’t wait to read the Scum thread, esp. the part where they no doubt say that Meeko should be kept alive as he is hurting the Town. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crimson-glyph-forbidden-thread/494861.md?page=10)