# Cringeworthy moments in tng **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258 "2017-04-11T19:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/61 "2017-04-13T14:38:15Z")
Remember how outrageous that Okona was? Man was he ever outrageous. He’s so outrageous that he makes all of us who are standing around talking about how outrageous he is look very not outrageous in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/62 "2017-04-13T14:57:31Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Remember how outrageous that Okona was? Man was he ever outrageous. He’s so outrageous that he makes all of us who are standing around talking about how outrageous he is look very not outrageous in comparison. He was a rogue. A scoundrel. Chicks dig that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/63 "2017-04-13T15:13:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The entirety of Season 1 was cringeworthy. Troi during that season especially so. Followed by Tasha, until they killed her off because she was so bad. Tasha Yar was killed off because the actor wanted out. There wasn’t anything inherently wrong with the character as a concept, the show just was woodenly written. Denise Crosby is a perfectly competent actress. You can have a great actor look terrible given bad scripts; look at poor Natalie Portman in the Star Wars prequels. That said, in retrospect, the character dynamic was far better with Tasha gone, Worf in the security role, and room freed up for Geordi to be chief engineer. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/64 "2017-04-13T15:49:12Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > “Gentlemen! \*\*Risk \*\*is our **business**! That’s what this starship is all **about**! **That’s why we’re aboard her!** ” “Risk is our business! That’s why I’m moving five armies into Kamchatka.” > [@RickJay](#): > > Tasha Yar was killed off because the actor wanted out. > > There wasn’t anything inherently wrong with the character as a concept, the show just was woodenly written. Denise Crosby is a perfectly competent actress. You can have a great actor look terrible given bad scripts; look at poor Natalie Portman in the Star Wars prequels. Agree. Crosby’s work as “alternate Yar” and as “Sela” was fine. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/65 "2017-04-13T17:33:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Tasha Yar was killed off because the actor wanted out. > > There wasn’t anything inherently wrong with the character as a concept, the show just was woodenly written. Denise Crosby is a perfectly competent actress. You can have a great actor look terrible given bad scripts; look at poor Natalie Portman in the Star Wars prequels. > > That said, in retrospect, the character dynamic was far better with Tasha gone, Worf in the security role, and room freed up for Geordi to be chief engineer. I didn’t say Denise Crosby was bad. I said Tasha Yar was bad. She was. Whether that was Denise Crosby’s acting or the writing or the directing or whatever is irrelevant. 😉 And how was Geordi freed up to become chief engineer because of Tasha Yar’s death? They could have done that at any time. And let’s not talk about how stupid that promotion was: you promote your helmsman to chief engineer? This is because he was helmsman on account of his incredible knowledge of warp drive engines?? :smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/66 "2017-04-13T17:54:27Z")
As for the acting chops of Denise Crosby, I think that’s best summed up by the fact that she’s had limited major roles as an actor: Tasha Yar, Rachel Creed in _Pet Semetary_, and (arguably) Marilyn Wade in _Dolly Dearest_, a limited budget film that was almost direct-to-video. She had a minor role in _Days of Our Lives_, and has had limited guest roles in TV shows, etc. Not exactly the resume of a stellar actress. But in her defense, she certainly didn’t act any worse than Marina Sirtis, and one can argue that the only reason Sirtis lasted the whole series on TNG was that she was willing to be cast in an eye-candy-like role. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/67 "2017-04-13T17:57:00Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I didn’t say Denise Crosby was bad. I said Tasha Yar was bad. She was. Whether that was Denise Crosby’s acting or the writing or the directing or whatever is irrelevant. She was wooden no matter which role she played. And I thought the whole “alternate timeline/she had a child by a Romulan” story line was stupid and unnecessary. Geordi was probably promoted because Roddenberry or Justman didn’t want to repeat the cliche of a Scottish Chief Engineer, and they didn’t want to spend the money to hire another actor for the role. Also, they wanted to make LeVar Burton’s role more important, since he was getting star billing already. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/68 "2017-04-13T17:57:10Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > And let’s not talk about how stupid that promotion was: you promote your helmsman to chief engineer? This is because he was helmsman on account of his incredible knowledge of warp drive engines?? :smack::smack: Of course! Didn’t you know that all professional drivers are also master mechanics? They’d jump out of their cars and fix everything themselves in the Pit, but they don’t have time. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/69 "2017-04-13T18:03:26Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > But in her defense, she certainly didn’t act any worse than Marina Sirtis, and one can argue that the only reason Sirtis lasted the whole series on TNG was that she was willing to be cast in an eye-candy-like role. Plus she had spectacular boobs! :o ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/70 "2017-04-13T18:09:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > He was a rogue. A scoundrel. Thank you, Counselor. We’d never have figured that out by ourselves! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/71 "2017-04-13T18:10:04Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Of course! Didn’t you know that all professional drivers are also master mechanics? They’d jump out of their cars and fix everything themselves in the Pit, but they don’t have time. Or, you could wank it that before getting a promotion to Chief Engineer, or the head of any department, an officer must serve in various other positions around the ship to “round them out” into a proper Big Deal Occifer. Geordi was just doing his required stint as a Bridge Officer first season. It’s not like he actually _flew_ the damn ship. He just punched a few buttons and fell over when the director yelled “Hit!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/72 "2017-04-13T18:13:43Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > And how was Geordi freed up to become chief engineer because of Tasha Yar’s death? They could have done that at any time. And let’s not talk about how stupid that promotion was: you promote your helmsman to chief engineer? This is because he was helmsman on account of his incredible knowledge of warp drive engines?? :smack::smack: I don’t think it a terribly long stretch to assume a highly talented officer would be asked to perform multiple roles on the ship as he worked his way up. If anything, I find it rather less likely a person spending decades in Starfleet would stay in the same role forever. People don’t even do that in navies and armies today, and the implication in Star Trek is 1. People do things because they want to, not because economics makes them do it, and 2. People live a bit longer, so their careers are a bit longer. One would think a well-rounded Starfleet officer, especially a really, really good one, would have taken the time to do several different jobs. The things that didn’t work for me were: 1. WESLEY being a helmsman. That made zero sense. Now, having said, that, I liked the CHARACTER of Wesley Crusher. He was a useful dynamic in terms of defining the other characters and he was an interesting character himself, well played by Wil Wheaton. They just shouldn’t have had him on the bridge. Enterprise is one of the fleet’s most prestigious postings; every officer on board who had taken flight training would be writing angry emails to Starfleet about how some kid was steering the ship and they weren’t being given the chance. 2. Deanna Troi as the “counselor.” The idea of Troi having empathic powers was ill advised and more or less forgotten most of the time, because it usually got in the way more than anything else. The thing is, whenever asked to do anything else interesting, I liked the character and Marina Sirtis; any episode where her mother showed up was wonderful, as Sirtis got to play a much more relateable person. 3. Beverley Crusher in general; she was a terrible character. I’m not to this day precisely sure what her character was, really. She just seemed to be this perfect moral crusader. Having a sort-of-romantic foil for the ever-professional Picard was a fine idea, and those scenes were often the show’s most poignant, but she could have been a lot more human. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/73 "2017-04-13T19:06:27Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Because, there has to be a nebula. I have a hazy feeling about this… ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/74 "2017-04-13T21:01:34Z")
I’ve got two: The two episodes with Dr. Leah Brahms. Isn’t Geordi smarter than that? Plus, ick factor. The episode where they find Scotty stuck in a transporter buffer. The whole damn, stupid episode. Scotty: You soured the milk! :smack::smack::smack: And for good measure: anything with Diana Muldaur. Anything! One good bit: Q turns Dr. Crusher into a very attractive Irish Setter. I’m rather fond of dogs…fond of dogs…fond of dogs… . ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/75 "2017-04-13T21:37:45Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > And for good measure: anything with Diana Muldaur. Anything! I would have paid good money if the last episode that season she’d fallen down a turbolift shaft. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/76 "2017-04-13T21:50:32Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I would have paid good money if the last episode that season she’d fallen down a turbolift shaft. I said that exact thing to my wife and she punched me on the arm! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/77 "2017-04-13T22:16:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I would have paid good money if the last episode that season she’d fallen down a turbolift shaft. Can’t happen. By the 24th century, technology has been perfected. For things like transporters, turbolifts, holodecks, the safeguards are too embedded. These things are foolproof. Nothing can go wrong…go wrong…go wrong… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258/78 "2017-04-13T23:56:02Z")
I’d like o defend Denise Crosby, if not exactly Tasha Yar. Yar was not a very good character, but the concept was very sound and would have worked extremely well. It’s that she was written… badly. Abysmally badly. And also, there are some rumors, or rather very-likely-but-not-confirmed-facts, that she was maybe-possibly being harassed… err… _personally_ by two men who happened to be her bosses. Crosby could see how bad the show was and wanted out. And frankly, it would indeed struggle for the next year, and only really turned around once the leadership team had been entirely overturned. Note that she was invited back for guest roles, and did quite well in them. So I don’t think anyone can plausible argue she was the problem, and she left because she wanted to leave, not because she was forced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cringeworthy-moments-in-tng/784258.md?page=3)