# Criteria for US Police Shooting at a Suspect? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683 "2008-05-01T23:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/41 "2008-05-02T19:10:12Z")
Wow. So there appears to be a higher standard in the use of force, as applied to pre-conviction suspects, compared to convicted criminals. Has there been any challenges to this? (If so, Im guessing that they were unsuccessful, right?) ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/42 "2008-05-03T00:51:44Z")
I have a habit of posting questions here and having received a more than adequate answer don’t like to bump my thread just to say thanks. However, as i have another question let me take the opportunity to thank all who have contributed (to this and any previous thread of mine!), very interesting reading! So, my related question(s). 1. How common is it for an officer to draw a weapon when no weapon is in the suspects hands? I’m referring to that ‘hands up’ type arrest scenario, where it almost seems like there is an assumption that a suspect could draw a weapon at any moment. 2. Does anyone really draw a weapon and shout ‘freeze’ at an escaping suspect? I have a feeling this is going to be a ‘santa isn’t real’ moment 😃 Just to retain a little personal dignity, i know TV shows aren’t real, i just never fail to be surprised just how far off they are! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/43 "2008-05-03T01:51:44Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] Wow. So there appears to be a higher standard in the use of force, as applied to pre-conviction suspects, compared to convicted criminals. Has there been any challenges to this? (If so, Im guessing that they were unsuccessful, right?) [/QUOTE] [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=475&invol=312](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=475&invol=312) (use of force on prisoners is governed by Eighth Amendment instead of Fourth); [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=490&invol=386&pageno=395](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=490&invol=386&pageno=395) (same) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/44 "2008-05-03T03:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > So it’s my understanding that in prisons across the country, you still have gunmen up in guard towers. If the general rule is, you can’t shoot a fleeing felon unless that person is a murderer, does this mean that the prison guards couldn’t shoot a convict climbing over a fence unless they knew said convict was a convicted murderer? > > Or are there different rules/regulations when talking about the police trying to apprehend someone and a correctional officer trying to stop an escape? I already posted the answer to this question. The general law is that you can shoot a prisoner to stop him from committing a serious felony - and escaping from prison is considered a serious felony. So the crime he was originally committed for is not a relevant issue. > [@](#): > > So there appears to be a higher standard in the use of force, as applied to pre-conviction suspects, compared to convicted criminals. I don’t see where you’re getting this. A prison guard can shoot a person in any situation where a police officer could - and can also shoot someone who is escaping custody which a police officer sometimes cannot do. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/45 "2008-05-05T14:38:35Z")
[QUOTE=rocksolid] 1. How common is it for an officer to draw a weapon when no weapon is in the suspects hands? I’m referring to that ‘hands up’ type arrest scenario, where it almost seems like there is an assumption that a suspect could draw a weapon at any moment. 2. Does anyone really draw a weapon and shout ‘freeze’ at an escaping suspect? I have a feeling this is going to be a ‘santa isn’t real’ moment 😃 [/QUOTE] The one place where the definitions of use of force differ greatly between police and the general public with pointing a weapon at someone. As you may suspect we are not obligated to wait for someone to pull out a weapon before we do. This isn’t the Old West (as seen in the movies). If a non-police officer points a gun at someone it will probably fall under an aggrevated assault statute depending on the jurisdiction. For police officers it is called “constructive authority”, on the same level as ordering someone to the ground. As stated in the use of force policy previously cited: > [@](#): > > A. Constructive Authority > > 1. Constructive authority does not involve actual physical contact with > the subject, but involves the use of the law enforcement officer’s > authority to exert control over a subject. > > 2. Examples include verbal commands, gestures, warnings, and > unholstering a weapon. > > 3. Pointing a firearm at a subject is an element of constructive > authority to be used only in appropriate situations. And from the deadly force portion: > [@](#): > > 1. A threat to cause death or serious bodily harm, by the production of > a weapon or otherwise, so long as the officer’s purpose is limited to > creating an apprehension that deadly force will be used if > necessary, does not constitute deadly force. As for yelling “freeze”, we are not trained to say that but that type of situation does come up from time to time. “Don’t move” is better with “Show me your hands” to follow when they are no longer moving. We try not to say both at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683/46 "2008-05-05T16:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I don’t see where you’re getting this. A prison guard can shoot a person in any situation where a police officer could - and can also shoot someone who is escaping custody which a police officer sometimes cannot do. [/QUOTE] What I was commenting on was that, according to some of the cites I saw above, a police officer cannot shoot a fleeing suspect unless: > [@](#): > > the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime **involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm** But a prison inmate seen trying to cut the fence in an escape attempt, and may be shot, even if noone was being threatened at that time. I saw a different standard, is all. I didn’t mean to imply any judgement values to it. But lawyers _love_ to argue over these little differences. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/criteria-for-us-police-shooting-at-a-suspect/447683.md?page=2)