# Critic harshes on "Precious" - Ugly grittiness of underclass life gives him the vapors \[SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573 "2009-11-06T15:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/1 "2009-11-06T15:06:20Z")
Review here [Precious - Sorry, I didn’t like this movie.](http://www.slate.com/id/2234728/) > [@](#): > > It’s not that there isn’t anything to like about Precious, which at its best resembles its heroine: observant, large-spirited, and brave. The director, Lee Daniels (Shadowboxer), puts on his hip boots and wades into grimmer territory than any recent film I can think of, and his fearless leading ladies, Mo’Nique and Sidibe, wade right in with him. But Daniels’ methodical commitment to abjection, his need to shove the reality of Precious’ life in our faces and wave it around till we acknowledge its awfulness, winds up robbing the audience (and, to some extent, the actors) of all agency. He has been robbed of his agency. Apparently the film is insisting on itself a bit too much. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/2 "2009-11-06T15:58:50Z")
I always read reviews but rarely let them influence my decision whether to see a film or not. This morning I read [this](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013004574517482456740524.html) (scroll down a bit) so at least you know Mr. Morgenstern is promoting it. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/3 "2009-11-06T17:22:07Z")
What the hell does “it insists upon itself” even mean? Seriously. I’m not asking rhetorically – I genuinely want to know. Peter Griffin used that as a complaint against _The Godfather_, and I didn’t get it then, either. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/4 "2009-11-06T17:33:49Z")
I guess it means that insists that it is important because it is \_\_\_\_\_, regardless if it actually warrants it? This movie is a about an obese inner-city girl with two children and an abusive mother… when was the last time you saw a movie about that? Therefore it must be important! ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/5 "2009-11-06T17:45:50Z")
Anything that is shocking in its presentation of reality runs the risk of being tagged “[insert topic] porn.” I think it’s a weak criticism unless the portrayal is gratuitous. It appears to be a necessary element of this story. Another vote for “movie was a little too real” for this reviewer. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/6 "2009-11-06T17:48:04Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I guess it means that insists that it is important because it is \_\_\_\_\_, regardless if it actually warrants it? > > This movie is a about an obese inner-city girl with two children and an abusive mother… when was the last time you saw a movie about that? Therefore it must be important! that’s how I understand it but going even further in that it’s NOT actually important at all (no “whether”). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/7 "2009-11-06T17:51:21Z")
I didn’t really get the point that **astro** was making. But I’ve seen a lot of reviewers who seem to be saying that the film is being pretty transgressive by showing a protagonist and a way of life that’s not easy to like or pity, but that’s pretty much all it does. It doesn’t really make you feel anything for the characters who seem to be stock types. Anyway, at least this article didn’t result in claims of racism from the blog Jezebel as is what happened at NY Magazine: > **[When Push Comes to Shove — and Shove Back, Hard](https://nymag.com/daily/movies/2009/11/when_push_comes_to_shove--and.html)** > > Some readers have reacted with anger to a review of 'Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire' that they believe reflects deep prejudices toward... ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/8 "2009-11-06T17:55:57Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > This movie is a about an obese inner-city girl with two children and an abusive mother… when was the last time you saw a movie about that? Therefore it must be important! Um, unless it’s a radical departure from the book, its subject is a lot less typical than young girl with kids. She and her kids share the same dad. And as far as I know there’s no later weasling out of the incest angle by saying that it’s not really her biofather but a step parent, unlike The Color Purple and Little Boy Blue both did ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/9 "2009-11-06T17:59:48Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Um, unless it’s a radical departure from the book, its subject is a lot less typical than young girl with kids. > > She and her kids share the same dad. And as far as I know there’s no later weasling out of the incest angle by saying that it’s not really her biofather but a step parent, unlike The Color Purple and Little Boy Blue both did Plus, normally even when you have a poor girl living in the ghetto, you can make her sympathetic. Light skinned or attractive, thin–the kind of person who’s gorgeous and smart and plucky and will make something of herself, and who people can’t help but love. Precious is the kind of character you have to look harder at, who’s not easy to love, and that’s what makes it different. It’s very tempting to just look past her, the way most people have probably done all her life. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/10 "2009-11-06T23:29:24Z")
Maybe I’m reading in too much between the lines subtext, but I kind of get the impression both critics are viscerally repelled by the character as this barely literate, bloated, bulldog of a human being who is the pawn of monsters. She is everything you are not supposed to be in America. She too fat, too black. too poor, and semi-literate. The NYT critic more or less compares her to one of John Water’s freak show characters, and yet this character is far more of a real person than the stereotypes the movie industry loves so well. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/11 "2009-11-06T23:33:11Z")
I haven’t seen the movie, but what the reviewer seems to criticizing is a lack of subtlety. Other reviewers have also mentioned that the movie kind of hits you over the head over and over. Of course, in a movie this gritty, this may be a totally invalid criticism, like saying Schindler’s List lacks subtlety. I haven’t seen it, so I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/12 "2009-11-06T23:37:13Z")
Tyler Perry likes this movie. So does Oprah Winfrey. I condemn it thus. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/13 "2009-11-07T05:50:10Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > This movie is a about an obese inner-city girl with two children and an abusive mother… when was the last time you saw a movie about that? Home movies count? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/14 "2009-11-07T05:51:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Tyler Perry likes this movie. > > So does Oprah Winfrey. > > I condemn it thus. I think they both like Toni Morrison–does she lose points too? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/15 "2009-11-07T15:13:04Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I think they both like Toni Morrison–does she lose points too? “Facts are the last refuge of persons who lack the courage of their convictions.” Glenn Beck. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/16 "2009-11-07T16:03:54Z")
I’d love to read some comments from Dopers who actually go see the movie. It’s not playing around me yet, and I’m not sure I can handle the incest/rape theme. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/17 "2009-11-07T16:08:50Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Maybe I’m reading in too much between the lines subtext, but I kind of get the impression both critics are viscerally repelled by the character as this barely literate, bloated, bulldog of a human being who is the pawn of monsters. > > She is everything you are not supposed to be in America. She too fat, too black. too poor, and semi-literate. The NYT critic more or less compares her to one of John Water’s freak show characters, and yet this character is far more of a real person than the stereotypes the movie industry loves so well. I think they were, or some of them were. In a way, I think it’s just because it’s so unexpected. Because even when people make films about poor black girls, it’s beautiful, thin girls. When I was younger I sort of romanticized the whole poor girl in the ghetto thing. I mean, not like I actually wanted to be poor and in the ghetto…but I remember I’d listen to _Love Child_ by the Supremes and think of how cool Diana Ross was and how romantic the whole thing seemed. It would be a lot easier to love Precious if she was pretty and thin–and even she realizes that because apparently there’s a part where she looks in the mirror and sees a beautiful white girl. Anyway, I’m not put off by horrible themes so I’ll try to see it Sunday and report back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/18 "2009-11-07T16:27:04Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Maybe I’m reading in too much between the lines subtext, but I kind of get the impression both critics are viscerally repelled by the character as this barely literate, bloated, bulldog of a human being who is the pawn of monsters. > > She is everything you are not supposed to be in America. She too fat, too black. too poor, and semi-literate. The NYT critic more or less compares her to one of John Water’s freak show characters, and yet this character is far more of a real person than the stereotypes the movie industry loves so well. I don’t get any of that from reading the review, and have to wonder that you did. What I clearly got was this: > [@Erdosain](#): > > I haven’t seen the movie, but what the reviewer seems to criticizing is a lack of subtlety. And that lack of subtlety (according to the reviewer) doesn’t leave the viewer much space to actually have thoughts or ideas about the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/19 "2009-11-07T16:30:45Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I don’t get any of that from reading the review, and have to wonder that you did. What I clearly got was this: Right–I think one of them said the characters were just TOO over the top–archetypes. Mo’nique as the mother was nothing but a dehumanized monster, the social worker is the nice white (er, light skinned) pretty woman who reaches out to Precious. It beats you over the head with “Look how transgressive” but that’s not enough. You have to care at least somewhat when you see a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573/20 "2009-11-07T16:34:28Z")
The best movie reviews can be found at The Onion’s AVClub, and they give it a “B” which is pretty good. > **[Precious](https://www.avclub.com/precious-1798207385)** > > Precious features plenty of off-putting images and attitudes, beginning with the movie’s straight-out-of-Rush-Limbaugh’s-nightmares vision of lazy welfare queens, and ending with the way the film seems to wallow in inner-city misery. It isn’t enough... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critic-harshes-on-precious-ugly-grittiness-of-underclass-life-gives-him-the-vapors-spoilers/516573.md?page=2)