# Critical Mass bike rides - cool or stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805 "2009-08-18T02:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/61 "2009-09-12T04:47:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Fuck that shit. > > You really think that car registration costs cover road building, maintenance, and upkeep? Here’s a fucking clue: they don’t. Everyone pays for that shit, even people who don’t own a car and who take public transit everywhere. You’d probably be whining a lot more if you actually had to pay for the full cost of roads in your car registration. You neglected the tax on fuel. So yes, cars do pay their way on the road. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/62 "2009-09-12T05:30:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You neglected the tax on fuel. So yes, cars do pay their way on the road. I never suggested that cars don’t pay. But they don’t pay for it all by themselves, and people who don’t drive still end up contributing some of their taxes to roads. The idea that, because cyclists don’t pay registration fees, they have no claim to use the road, is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/63 "2009-09-12T05:43:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I never suggested that cars don’t pay. But they don’t pay for it all by themselves, and people who don’t drive still end up contributing some of their taxes to roads. The idea that, because cyclists don’t pay registration fees, they have no claim to use the road, is stupid. I didn’t say they had _no_ claim to use the roads. I just think they have a exponentially reduced claim to use the roads, particularly in busy urban areas. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/64 "2009-09-12T06:13:00Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I didn’t say they had _no_ claim to use the roads. I just think they have a exponentially reduced claim to use the roads, particularly in busy urban areas. I guess that makes your position _almost_ completely ridiculous, instead of simply completely ridiculous. Kudos. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/65 "2009-09-12T07:35:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I never suggested that cars don’t pay. But they don’t pay for it all by themselves, and people who don’t drive still end up contributing some of their taxes to roads. The idea that, because cyclists don’t pay registration fees, they have no claim to use the road, is stupid. I disagree. If you look up the tax rates by state you’ll see they differ considerably and it appears to be related to the size of the state population. The Federal tax rate is the same and is presumably used for interstate highways. There is no justification for a cyclist to impede traffic and any city that allows critical mass rides to occur should be held liable for any confrontations that occur. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/66 "2009-09-12T07:41:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no justification for a cyclist to impede traffic and any city that allows critical mass rides to occur should be held liable for any confrontations that occur. Never suggested otherwise. Not even once. If you’ll look back on my arguments in this thread, you’ll see that i’ve made quite clear my opposition to Critical Mass tactics, and i’ve argued that they should not break the rules of the road. But **Martini Enfield** ’s position is that, even when they obey the traffic laws, cyclists don’t deserve the same consideration as cars. He specifically described himself as “anti-cyclist.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/67 "2009-09-12T14:16:48Z")
```auto ``` > [@Magiver](#): > > You neglected the tax on fuel. So yes, cars do pay their way on the road. No they don’t. Fuel and registration fees don’t even begin to cover road costs in the USA. The rest is paid by taxes that cyclists also pay. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/68 "2009-09-12T14:19:05Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I didn’t say they had _no_ claim to use the roads. I just think they have a exponentially reduced claim to use the roads, particularly in busy urban areas. Why? Busy Urban areas are where cyclists can actually easily keep pace with traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/69 "2009-09-12T16:01:03Z")
> [@Black\_Sunshine](#): > > The people that I had a run in with were trying to make a confrontation with a motorist in order to make drivers seem like violent assholes. What happened with us was that, as we were driving down the street, a bunch of them cut directly in front of us. As we slowed, two of them moved their bikes so that we “hit” them. Then they all started punching our car and challenging us to a fight. When we wouldn’t fight them, one guy picked his bike up and slammed it down on the hood of our car. Later he was showing people his damaged bike as evidence that we hit him. I think I said it in your other thread, but if that happened to me, with a bunch of violent dudes banging on my car with myself and my family inside, it would have ended in gunfire and a court case for me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/70 "2009-09-12T17:59:23Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > ```auto > > ``` > > No they don’t. Fuel and registration fees don’t even begin to cover road costs in the USA. The rest is paid by taxes that cyclists also pay. Depends on which roads your talking about. State and Federal transportation budgets are absolutely tied to fuel revenue. City/county roads come out of local taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/71 "2009-09-12T18:03:54Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > I think I said it in your other thread, but if that happened to me, with a bunch of violent dudes banging on my car with myself and my family inside, it would have ended in gunfire and a court case for me. Pretty much my feelings. A group of bicyclists want to force a confrontation I’m going to run them over. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/72 "2009-09-12T18:29:57Z")
Just pulled[this](http://chicagocriticalmass.org/sites/chicagocriticalmass.org/files/Corking_CCM_07.pdf)off the Chicago site. Oh hell no. I would be all over the city about enforcing traffic laws. This is completely illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/73 "2009-09-12T23:21:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Depends on which roads your talking about. State and Federal transportation budgets are absolutely tied to fuel revenue. City/county roads come out of local taxes. Check again. While I am not certain about Federal roads, State roads rarely make budget from car & gas taxes. Lots of drivers have convinced themselves that they do, but it is rarely so. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/74 "2009-09-12T23:37:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Just pulled[this](http://chicagocriticalmass.org/sites/chicagocriticalmass.org/files/Corking_CCM_07.pdf)off the Chicago site. Oh hell no. I would be all over the city about enforcing traffic laws. This is completely illegal. Yep, and it’s probably the thing that gets drivers most pissed off at them. Not only that, but despite the fact that the leaflet says NOT to cork oncoming traffic in the opposite lane, they usually do that as well, just to be assholes. Anyway, my bike is out of commission right now, but i’m going to get it fixed up in the next week or so. I’m actually contemplating going along on the next San Diego Critical Mass ride, just to see what it’s like, and to see what percentage of the riders are complete assholes who are just out to make drivers’ lives miserable. If i go, i’ll make sure to report back here about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/75 "2009-09-13T00:11:09Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I remember that incident. I have nothing to say in defense of that officer – his actions were inexcusable. I believe he’s since been dismissed from the department. > > That said, CM riders go out of their way to provoke the police, and everyone else who has the misfortune to find themselves in the path of a CM ride. I’ve been observing these rides for years here in New York (although they seem to have lost a little steam lately), and I really believe that at least a significant minority of people on the rides intentionally provoke the police, hoping to create an incident that will allow CM participants to present themselves as victims. While I do not, of course, condone police violence in any way, I’ve gotta say that I admire their restraint. It must be a real temption to beat the living shit out of every single person on these rides. I know I’m tempted. > > CM? Fuck 'em. Yes, police violence is wrong. Still, it warms my heart to see one of these dipshits get his ass kicked. It seems to me that if I had to come up with a defense that perhaps the officer was making an arrest because the rider hit a pedestrian or a car and an officer told him to pull over and he wouldn’t. Keep in mind that the video only shows one direction. What an observer would see looking opposite the camera might be quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/76 "2009-09-13T00:38:05Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Check again. While I am not certain about Federal roads, State roads rarely make budget from car & gas taxes. Lots of drivers have convinced themselves that they do, but it is rarely so. I don’t know what you’re looking at but I pulled up the tax rates by state, looked at some random budgets and miles driven. I also found a number of articles where states are looking at increasing the fuel tax to keep up with forecasted budgets. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/77 "2009-09-13T01:44:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t know what you’re looking at but I pulled up the tax rates by state, looked at some random budgets and miles driven. I also found a number of articles where states are looking at increasing the fuel tax to keep up with forecasted budgets. Several states use part of the sales tax. Others use taxes on propane and heating oil. Others still used aviation fuel taxes. Right now there are state road projects being funded by the Federal Stimulous program. You want to tell me who is paying for that? Some do meet state road needs via gas and registration fees, but others do not. Look at form S-106 from the Federal Highway Admin. Either way, many state roads are forbidden to cyclists. While some are not. Nevertheless the vast, vast majority of roads cyclists are on are local and paid at least partially by general funds. So telling us to take ‘get off the roads’ because we ‘don’t pay’ when we certainly do is beyond selfish. ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/78 "2009-09-13T01:47:51Z")
Up til now, CM’ers in Atlanta and Athens have been nothing but royal assholes who only serve to make things worse. ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/79 "2009-09-13T01:54:46Z")
Here’s a typical CM nutjob actually [complaining that police are enforcing traffic laws](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uic8HSefvto). This dude seems to believe that his little event is somehow above the law, and that failure to exempt him and his buddies from the law is a bad thing, and that their day of “protest” is more important than everyone else’s need to move thru the city. Give me a break! These people are not helping. They are giving cyclists a bad name. Traffic in Atlanta is bad enough as it is – among the worst in the nation – and to have these jerks take a day to make it worse… how do they imagine that this is going to help anyone who wants to cycle? Same roads, same rules. That’s the law here. What a bunch of spoiled idiots! ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805/80 "2009-09-13T02:35:32Z")
Another bike commuter here. Hate them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critical-mass-bike-rides-cool-or-stupid/506805.md?page=3)