# Critique the design of the U.S. flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 20, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947 "2011-09-20T14:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/21 "2011-09-20T19:03:06Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The only US flags that are attractive are those of the states of Tennessee and New Mexico. Hey, hey, hey! Have you never seen the Ohio flag?: [Flag of Ohio - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_ohio) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/22 "2011-09-20T19:15:09Z")
So does the design specifically call for the blue field to be in the upper LEFT corner? Or is the design dependant on where the mast is? When you see the back side of a US flag they put the blue field in the upper RIGHT so it abuts the mast. Is this technically wrong? How is something like the Italinan flag flown? Is the green area always to the left or is it again dependant on the mast? Are the colors on the back side of an Italian flag reversed? ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/23 "2011-09-20T19:21:12Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The only US flags that are attractive are those of the states of Tennessee and New Mexico. Wait… what? How about the Texas [state flag](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Texas)? It has all the elements of the US flag, but simplified and balanced–just what the OP ordered! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/24 "2011-09-20T19:27:40Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The only US flags that are attractive are those of the states of Tennessee and New Mexico. Virginia’s has a bare-breasted woman with sword and spear at the ready plant her foot on the chest of the tyrant she just went all Sic Semper Tyrannis on; it’s less like a flag, and more like the best imaginable movie poster for the next Angelina Jolie blockbuster! ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/25 "2011-09-20T20:08:27Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > What you linked to is not the confederate flag. It’s the confederate **battle** flag. When you see someone fly it, they’re not flying the flag of confederate ideals, they’re flying the confederate battle flag, a flag under which half a million Americans died and almost as many were injured. > > They’re flying the flag of a war, and of death. Not of ideals and independence. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a beautiful flag. I much prefer it to the current US flag. The US flag isn’t _bad_, but I think it’s got too many stars and too many stripes. The Confederate national flags (the Stars and Bars, for example) aren’t nearly as good. There’s something in these three bars that just doesn’t work, and makes me even prefer the US flag’s stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/26 "2011-09-20T20:28:20Z")
The New Hampshire state flag is pretty awful, I’m sorry to say: [http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst048.gif](http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst048.gif) On the plus side, the DC flag is clean, distinctive, and damned sharp-looking: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag\_of\_Washington,\_D.C](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Washington,_D.C). ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/27 "2011-09-20T20:43:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Here’s an alternative: [Flag of the Green Mountain Boys - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Green_Mountain_Boys) The different color scheme is definitely an improvement, though I think the seemingly random arrangement of stars combined with most of it being solid green detracts. If we had that sort of color scheme on the modern flag, I’d be happier. > [@](#): > > Or the Continental Flag, thought to have been flown during the Battle of Bunker Hill: [http://www.usflagdepot.com/store/media/continental.gif](http://www.usflagdepot.com/store/media/continental.gif) Don’t really like this one, not really sure why. > [@](#): > > For an eagle (grasping a peace pipe, no less), here’s the John C. Fremont flag of 1841: [http://www.flagofarms.com/images/designs/Fremont\_Flag.jpg](http://www.flagofarms.com/images/designs/Fremont_Flag.jpg) > > Or I kinda like the Space Age flag from the paperback cover of Tom Wolfe’s _The Right Stuff_: [http://www.sci.fi/~fta/The\_Right\_Stuff.jpg](http://www.sci.fi/~fta/The_Right_Stuff.jpg) These are sort of along what I was thinking. Take the upper quadrant and make it the whole flag, and find a way to add maybe a little more color and I could get behind it. > [@](#): > > As for numerology, be careful what you wish for. Here’s a popular U.S. Centennial flag from 1876: [http://www.loeser.us/flags/images/spanish/centennial\_flag\_1876.jpg](http://www.loeser.us/flags/images/spanish/centennial_flag_1876.jpg) I could take or leave numerology, but it seems to be an important part of the design over time. If we’re going to use it to represent important things, fine, but don’t go over the top with it to the point that it gets cluttered, like our flag now is. This is an abomination, and a perfect example of this having gone too far. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/28 "2011-09-20T20:55:46Z")
Hey! Colorado’s got an awesome flag too, if I do say so myself. Minnesota’s (and indeed, all of the midwestern states’ flags) sucks eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/29 "2011-09-20T21:08:29Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > You’re welcome to your opinion, of course. Personally, I’ve always thought Tennessee’s flag looked like [Paul Stanley](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kFTy7XP165c/THVD8D5ZO5I/AAAAAAAAAPI/wl6Jrnyvc3E/s1600/Kiss-Paul_Stanley-Frontal.jpg)’s bowling ball. I think it looks like an oil company’s logo. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/30 "2011-09-20T21:08:36Z")
I like the flag on a level because it’s the home team, but on a graphic design level, I’m not a huge fan. **The good** I do like the red white and blue. The colors are both popular in our culture and are primary and striking. **The bad** I agree with those who say it’s too cluttered. I get that there is symbolism behind the stripes and stars, but that doesn’t mean that the execution of that symbolism is well done. Stripes in general tend to be less timeless than fields of color, which Mainly the thing that fails for me is the overall composition. If you take the stars and stripes to be pattern fills, at it’s root, all we have is a rectangle with a color break in one corner. Asymmetry can be a good thing, but in this instance, that blue field is just sitting there. Lastly, it’s static. While lots of flags limit their color fields to horizontal or vertical lines, horizontal lines are so much more dynamic. Regardless of the principles it stood for, the rectangular variant of the Confederate battle flag has got the dynamism of the diagonal lines. For similar reasons, for my money, it doesn’t get any better than the Union Jack! I find it so impressive that the mash up of several independent flags was able to have been brought together so elegantly. Despite not having a drop of British blood in me, I have two t-shirts emblazoned with it, just for the graphic design of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/31 "2011-09-20T21:36:30Z")
I’m thinking something that screams [Hello Kitty.](http://static.tumblr.com/4ikdn5x/i0eloy9le/hellokitty3.jpg) Good, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/32 "2011-09-20T21:57:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I always really liked Maryland myself. Yeah it’s heraldic arms, but still. Maryland’s is actually my least favorite flag. It’s too gaudy for me. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hey, hey, hey! Have you never seen the Ohio flag?: [Flag of Ohio - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_ohio) I’m a traditionalist. I don’t like non-rectangular flags. I also don’t like letters, words, or numbers on flags, so it gets further points knocked off for the O. > [@JKilez](#): > > Wait… what? > > How about the Texas [state flag](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Texas)? It has all the elements of the US flag, but simplified and balanced–just what the OP ordered! I forgot about Texas. It’s a perfectly adequate flag, but it loses points for being an obvious rip-off of the national flag. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Virginia’s has a bare-breasted woman with sword and spear at the ready plant her foot on the chest of the tyrant she just went all Sic Semper Tyrannis on; it’s less like a flag, and more like the best imaginable movie poster for the next Angelina Jolie blockbuster! Besides Maryland, my least favorite US flags are the navy blue ones with the state seal. All two dozen or more. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/33 "2011-09-20T22:04:43Z")
Hah. I’m consistent, too. I said pretty much [the same thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6584778&postcount=14) in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/34 "2011-09-20T23:04:36Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The only US flags that are attractive are those of the states of Tennessee and New Mexico. Hey, I think Arizona has a really nice looking flag. [![](https://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst004.gif) ](https://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst004.gif) We may have a reputation as a state full of Tea Partying wingnuts (unfortunately), but I think our flag is darn nice. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/35 "2011-09-20T23:30:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > New Mexico is the land of the Navajo, and very sunny, hence a Navajo sun-symbol. \Zia\ ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/36 "2011-09-20T23:49:11Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Bright colors, visible at a distance. > > Recognizable pattern. > > Distinctive design. > > Easy to describe symbolism. > > The only problem I have with the U.S. flag is that there are too many stars and they tend to look cluttered at a distance. But that’s not a problem with the basic design – we just need to combine a few states. The state of Georbassippi works for me. Pohio, Vermaishire and Coregoshington are easy on the ears as well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/37 "2011-09-21T00:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Hampshire** : > So does the design specifically call for the blue field to be in the upper LEFT corner? Or is the design dependant on where the mast is? > When you see the back side of a US flag they put the blue field in the upper RIGHT so it abuts the mast. Is this technically wrong? When flying from a mast, the end with the star field should be at the mast, on the top. When on the surface of something propelled by wind, the star field should be to the rear, and on the surface of anything else mobile, it should be to the front, as though it were flying from a mast. When on an immobile surface, whether horizontal or vertical, it should have the star field at the viewer’s top left corner. I’m pretty sure this is all laid out in the Flag Code. And while Virginia does get bonus points for having a bare boob on it (bare boobs make everything better), it’s still Yet Another Seal on Blue. You have to get a pretty close view to be able to tell any of those apart. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/38 "2011-09-21T01:59:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And while Virginia does get bonus points for having a bare boob on it (bare boobs make everything better), it’s still Yet Another Seal on Blue. You have to get a pretty close view to be able to tell any of those apart. I always like NC’s flag from that perspective. In case you forgot which state the flag was for, we put our name on it. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/39 "2011-09-21T02:15:24Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I like our flag. Mainly because it’s our flag, gosh darn it. This. +1 _likebutton_ ~poz fb! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/40 "2011-09-21T02:54:11Z")
I don’t think there’s a thing wrong with the American flag. I think it’s beautiful the way it is and I always get teary eyed when I’m watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. You won’t hear the crowd roar like that for any other country’s flag . (ok, maybe the hosting country.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947.md?page=3)