# Critique the design of the U.S. flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 20, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947 "2011-09-20T14:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/41 "2011-09-21T03:07:20Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > …On the plus side, the DC flag is clean, distinctive, and damned sharp-looking: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag\_of\_Washington,\_D.C](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Washington,_D.C).. Link fixed. Yes, a fine flag, based on the coat of arms of George Washington, which also appear on the Purple Heart: [Purple Heart - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart) ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/42 "2011-09-21T03:22:20Z")
Great state flag, IMO: Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/43 "2011-09-21T03:52:24Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > What you linked to is not the confederate flag. It’s the confederate **battle** flag. When you see someone fly it, they’re not flying the flag of confederate ideals, they’re flying the confederate battle flag, a flag under which half a million Americans died and almost as many were injured. > > They’re flying the flag of a war, and of death. Not of ideals and independence. So they should fly the Stars and Bars? How boring. > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I’m thinking something that screams [Hello Kitty.](http://static.tumblr.com/4ikdn5x/i0eloy9le/hellokitty3.jpg) > > Good, yes? Yes, good. The design of the USA flag is not so bad. It’s unpretty but distinctive, like our national anthem. It’s the strong ties to the revolutionary era and the subtle racism of the symbolism I have a problem with, but that’s not this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/44 "2011-09-21T12:19:10Z")
I’m fond of the Stars and Stripes, so I vote no to changing it unless we add some states. Even so, the flag’s not really _changed_, it’s just updated. But, if the stars are just too many to deal with, I think we should adopt the Texas flag, and dub the nation “The Republic of Texas, And Those Other, Lesser, Forty-Nine States”😃 Alternately, I’m fond of the aforementioned [First Navy Jack.](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/First_Navy_Jack) As far as the Confederate battle flag? Could we please not adopt the flag of a group of slaveholders and rebels responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers on American soil? That said, if we DO decide to adopt the flag of defeated enemies, I vote for Mexico or Spain. Both nations have delightfully bold flags. Mexico’s even has an Eagle! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/45 "2011-09-21T14:20:08Z")
Realizing I’d done everything on my “bucket list” before I’d even made a list (and not wanting any trickster deities to decide “Well, then it’s your time!”), I had just put together an “Improbable Bucket List”. Things I’d love to do but realistically never will. Item number two was “Redesign the American flag”. I scribbled “Too busy/Asymmetrical/Horizontal stripes NOT slimming” next to it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/46 "2011-09-21T14:26:43Z")
_Anyone_ can redesign the flag. Getting Congress and the President to go along with you is something else again: > **[GovInfo](https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/USCODE)** > > Official Publications from the U.S. Government Publishing Office. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/47 "2011-09-21T14:31:29Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > I’m a traditionalist. I don’t like non-rectangular flags. I also don’t like letters, words, or numbers on flags, so it gets further points knocked off for the O. It’s not an O, it’s a buckeye, dammit. 😃 OK, it’s both. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/48 "2011-09-21T14:45:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Personally, I’d have prefered to have broken away from the red, white, and blue colors of the British flag as a stronger sense of separating ourselves symbolically. I’m not sure what colors we perhaps should have chosen, but I think we could have put some thought into it. _Look at the colors you chose The best you could do, I suppose A peppermint stripe with royal blue The same as the British colors, too Now how will we tell whose side is who? Look at the colors you chose_ From the great Stan Freberg. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/49 "2011-09-21T15:55:47Z")
It’s a great flag. I think flags have to be memorable, and a bit unique in design. When you compare it to the hordes of tricolor-style flags that we have over here in Europe, it really stands out. And it looks good when flapping in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/50 "2011-09-21T16:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I always like NC’s flag from that perspective. In case you forgot which state the flag was for, we put our name on it. That’s about the worst thing you can do on a flag-- It just smacks of unoriginality. If the pattern can’t stand on its own, then you’ve already got problems. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Chicago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Dr\_Chicago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Chicago)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/51 "2011-09-21T17:58:52Z")
Washington’s State flag (my home one) is terrible, but I don’t mind the American one. It’s simple and distinctive, especially from the European ones. The crosses and tricolors get difficult to tell apart, and then when you get used to that, Romania’s just looks like a mistake. Not a fan of Texas’ either, it just looks like “America, but for your little brother”. Seeing a bunch of shirts and things with it while I was there didn’t help either. As for changes? Cut out the stars, definitely. I like the deep blue, but the stripes look like shutters or a tv screen when filmed with a camcorder or something. But at this point, it’s too iconic to make any real changes and have it feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/52 "2011-09-21T20:15:58Z")
So what are folks’ thoughts on the Libyan flag? [Scotty voice] It’s green. [/Scotty voice] ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/53 "2011-09-21T20:29:42Z")
I like the US flag. It’s distinct, it’s not overly complicated, and the symbology isn’t that cumbersome. (Well, okay it can be if you delve into each element, but really, red white and blue, 13 stripes for the original colonies, 50 stars for the 50 states. Pretty easy.) I think the Confederate battle flag is a beautiful flag, a nice motif. Too bad the baggage it carries. > [@Ephemera](#): > > The only US flags that are attractive are those of the states of Tennessee and New Mexico. I like Arkansas’. [Flag of Arkansas - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Arkansas) Yeah, it says “Arkansas”, but it’s not gaudy, no stupid seal in the middle of it. And it incorporates the Blue stripe on red field, with a variation. > [@Hampshire](#): > > So does the design specifically call for the blue field to be in the upper LEFT corner? Or is the design dependant on where the mast is? > When you see the back side of a US flag they put the blue field in the upper RIGHT so it abuts the mast. Is this technically wrong? > How is something like the Italinan flag flown? Is the green area always to the left or is it again dependant on the mast? Are the colors on the back side of an Italian flag reversed? The Flag Code spells it out. The normal display mode is with the pole on the left, so the blue field is in the upper left. From the front. Naturally, the back is backwards, the blue field is closes to the pole, so if the pole is on the right, we are looking at the “back”, and it’s reverse. Alternately, the flag can be hung with the pole at the top. Curiously, when this is done, the Blue field is also hung on the left, which means you display the “back” out. This seems weird to me, but it’s official. The “display the flag from a moving thing with the pole first” is not something I was familiar with, but it’s incorporated in Army uniforms. I would put the flag on the left sleeve, where pole first puts the “front” out in standard display. Just seems wrong the other way. YMMV. That’s part of why flags with words or seals are bad - when looking at the “back”, they are extra messed up. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/54 "2011-09-21T21:32:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The “display the flag from a moving thing with the pole first” is not something I was familiar with, but it’s incorporated in Army uniforms. I would put the flag on the left sleeve, where pole first puts the “front” out in standard display. Just seems wrong the other way. YMMV. > > That’s part of why flags with words or seals are bad - when looking at the “back”, they are extra messed up. Flag patches worn on the right sleeve do have the field on the right side so it looks as if the wearer is carrying it forward. [![](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKl-Y0J4L._SL500_SL160_.jpg) ](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKl-Y0J4L._SL500_SL160_.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/55 "2011-09-21T21:48:57Z")
Yes, but the US flag can be dissembled and still be recognized by its disparate parts of red & white stripes and a field of white stars on a blue background. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/56 "2011-09-21T21:49:34Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The “display the flag from a moving thing with the pole first” is not something I was familiar with, but it’s incorporated in Army uniforms. I would put the flag on the left sleeve, where pole first puts the “front” out in standard display. Just seems wrong the other way. YMMV. The flag is worn on the right sleeve because the right side is the place of honor/seniority. For similar reasons, when more than one military person is walking around, the higher ranking one is supposed to be on the right side. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/57 "2011-09-21T22:11:12Z")
> [@Dr\_Chicago](#): > > Romania’s just looks like a mistake. > **[Flag of Romania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Romania)** > > The national flag of Romania (Romanian: drapelul național al României) is a tricolour featuring three equal vertical bands colored blue (at the flagpole), yellow and red, with a width to length ratio of 2:3. > The current version was adopted in 1989 in the wake of the Romanian Revolution and is defined in the Constitution of Romania as well as by organic law 75/1994, plus several later clarifications. Starting in 2023, the law provides exact color shades for print and digital purposes. It’s the French flag with piss on it. Which is kind of redundant. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/58 "2011-09-21T22:45:53Z")
I quite like the Romanian flag. Also Estonia’s. But yeah, all those tierced European flags are a bit dull. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > _Look at the colors you chose > The best you could do, I suppose > A peppermint stripe with royal blue > The same as the British colors, too > Now how will we tell whose side is who? > Look at the colors you chose_ > > From the great Stan Freberg. _Why couldn’t it have been puce? Lavender over chartreuse!_ “Everybody Wants to Be an Art Director” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/59 "2011-09-21T22:55:34Z")
Personally, from a design perspective, I think it’s great. The stars are a bit much, but, otherwise, everything about is good: no boring static symmetry, good choice of contrasting primary colors, distinctive design elements, identifiable at any size or distance (well, I suppose there’s a far-off chance it might be confused with the Liberian flag at a long, long distance). In my opinion, it’s more than just a successful design. It’s great. Now, the national anthem, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947/60 "2011-09-21T23:57:12Z")
I like it. Bold graphic elements that can be used on their own. Plus its ours. As far as state flags, I think New Jersey’s must be the worst. [Let’s take a look…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_New_Jersey.svg) We have a disembodied horse’s head, which apparently represents the mafia. On a background of piss yellow. With two exceptionally frumpy women. One of whom is holding a stick with a hat on it. There’s a knight’s helmet, which may or may not have anything to do with the Rutgers Scarlet Knights. And the shield in the middle has 3…I don’t know what on earth those things are. Sleds? WTF? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-the-design-of-the-u-s-flag/596947.md?page=4)