# Critique this: Why blacks run faster **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414 "2012-07-06T13:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/281 "2012-07-08T05:44:53Z")
Jesus. Just substitute Clydesdale for a dog breed. It’s late here. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/282 "2012-07-08T05:51:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Jesus. Just substitute Clydesdale for a dog breed. It’s late here. Then I’m going to have to ask you to narrow your parameters on that example, too. Are we comparing Clydesdales to Arabian stallions, quarter horses, farm horses, or what? Then age, training, and general health (or lack of it) also come into play. If we’re talking about dogs, what are comparing a Husky with? A Chihuahua? Your lack of parameters makes it a ridiculous question. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/283 "2012-07-08T05:53:17Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Did you just compare horses to dogs? What was the point of that? Simple late night error. Pick a dog breed instead of Clydesdale. > [@](#): > > As far as case B goes, your parameters are ridiculously broad, too, even putting aside the question of _ **which** _ sport. Heh. You actually think predicting a specific sport is going to be easier than general athletic ability? > [@](#): > > What are the ages and genders of the individuals? Are they both physically healthy? You think a scientific study doesn’t control for these? Assume they’re the same. > [@](#): > > How much training do they have at the sport in question? Your results must be independent of environmental factors. You can’t know anything about training. Remember you aren’t doing this comparison once. You’re doing it enough times to constitute a significant significant sample. You will get it wrong sometimes. The question is how many sometimes with respect to the size of your sample. > [@](#): > > What about height/weight? … > > What degree of natural athletic ability does each have? No, you can’t have these. You are positing that race is predictive of natural athletic ability and general physical suitability for athletics. Can’t beg the question. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/284 "2012-07-08T05:58:43Z")
[QUOTE=al27052] If we’re talking about dogs, what are comparing a Husky with? A Chihuahua? Your lack of parameters makes it a ridiculous question. [/QUOTE] Do you understand how science works? Do it with chihuahuas. Do it with Saint Bernards. Do it as many times as you like with as many breeds of dogs there are. You will always be able to make better predictions than you will with any two of a small number of sociocultural races that have been historically understood as the major races of humans. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/285 "2012-07-08T06:01:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Heh. You actually think predicting a specific sport is going to be easier than general athletic ability?. To clarify, what you’re going to find almost impossible to control for with specific sports or specific positions in specific sports is environmental factors. Do the easy study first and then see if you can do the harder one. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/286 "2012-07-08T06:19:08Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Weren’t you already warned in this very thread for this sort of attack? > > Are you able to control yourself? Er… I’m not attacking you. I’m critiquing your posts and your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/287 "2012-07-08T06:59:39Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > –That morphology varies with geography, due to isolation, genetic drift, and selection pressures > > –that morphology correlates very, very highly with specific athletic abilities, > > –That our traditional concepts of race _sort of_, but not _perfectly_, correlate with differences in specific athletic abilities, due to the first two points. > > I can’t imagine a rational person disagreeing. Hi I am perfectly rational. When I read your list here, my rational mind says “This guy is throwing around words and has not a single piece of data to back it up”. Is it right? Can you present a chain of research that clearly shows that isolation, genetic drift, and selection pressure shaped the athletic characteristics of various populations of African and Europeans? Can you show evidence that any of these various populations experienced small enough numbers for genetic drift to be a factor? Can you show evidence of selection to produce morphological characteristics that increase or decrease athletic ability? Do you have any evidence for anything you say at all except “This group of people dominates this sport therefore it must be genetic?”. Do you have the comphrension of genetics or ability to use your knowledge of genetics to actually consume the evidence that is readily available to you and would clearly present to you there is no evidence supporting your presumptions? Since you know enough about genetics to type the words “genetic drift” are you going to now search out a little enlightening information before filling your child’s head with unresearched suppositions? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/288 "2012-07-08T07:41:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You never asked and the fact that there aren’t any is probably far more due to the fact that powerlifting isn’t popular in Kenya than any genetic differences between the Kenyans and Norther Europeans from Russia and Bulgaria.:rolleyes: What? You think if that the reasons you don’t see Kenyans in the World’s Strongest man competitions is because of lack of interest or training. You’ve got to be kidding. You don’t see any natural differences between the average Kenyan and the average Icelander? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/289 "2012-07-08T08:24:13Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > This doesn’t really matters. It might be for instance that Brazilians don’t invest much in sports and in the training of their Olympic teams, resulting in few finalists in any sport. Similarly, Jamaica is a poor example in favor of a genetic hedge because Jamaicans are notoriously almost as crazy about racing as Brazilians are about soccer, so it’s no surprise that this country “produces” an abnormaly high number of world-level runners. Sprinting has low barriers to entry and carries high status in athletics around the world. Being fastest is something school kids can relate to and you don’t need expensive equipment or complicated rules. However, pretty much all the people who have gone under 10 seconds for the 100m are of west african ancestry. That would seem to suggest it is due to some genetic advantage or ability that is prevalent in that population. Jon Entine discusses some “bio-cultural” athletic hotspots [here](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/express.htm). > [@](#): > > HOTSPOT 3 West Africa > > … Blacks who link their ancestry to western African coastal states, from where American blacks trace their primary ancestry, are the quickest and best natural leapers in the world. West African-descended blacks almost completely monopolise sprinting up to 400 metres. No white or Asian runner has ever broken 10 seconds in the 100m. The top 200 times in the event - all less than 10 seconds - are held by athletes of West African descent, as are all 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men’s 100m races. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone is a nano-fraction of one per cent. This group also dominates in Basketball and American football. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/290 "2012-07-08T09:10:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > All you’ve shown is that certain phenotypes can appear in short times. There’s no showing that such superficial characteristics indicate any kind of significant biological divergence. As I said, even dog breeds, which are much more physically divergent than any human groupings, are largely superficial groupings that disappear almost immediately upon uncontrolled breeding. Except they aren’t just superficial characteristics - unless you think [bone density](http://depts.washington.edu/bonebio/bonAbout/race.html) is superficial. There is also this curious [study](http://www.impactlab.net/2010/07/14/the-secret-to-running-and-swimming-faster-the-position-of-your-belly-button/): > [@](#): > > ‘It so happens that in the architecture of the human body of West African-origin runners, the centre of gravity is significantly higher than in runners of European origin,’ which puts them at an advantage in sprints on the track, he added. > > Blacks generally have longer legs than white athletes, which means their belly-buttons are three centimeters higher than whites’, said Professor Bejan. > > That means the black athletes have a ‘hidden height’ that is 3 per cent greater than whites’, which gives them a significant running speed advantage. > > ‘Locomotion is essentially a continual process of falling forward, and mass that falls from a higher altitude, falls faster, the professor explained. > > In the pool, meanwhile, whites have the advantage because they have longer torsos, making their belly-buttons lower in the general scheme of body architecture. > > ‘Swimming is the art of surfing the wave created by the swimmer,’ said Professor Bejan. > > ‘The swimmer who makes the bigger wave is the faster swimmer, and a longer torso makes a bigger wave. > > ‘Europeans have a 3 per cent longer torso than West Africans, which gives them a 1.5 per cent speed advantage in the pool,’ he added. > > Asians have the same long torsos as Europeans, giving them the same potential to be record-breakers in the pool. > > But they often lose out to whites because whites are taller, he explained. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/291 "2012-07-08T13:14:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… I’m not attacking you. I’m critiquing your posts and your arguments. No, you’re being rude, which destroys your crediblity. Teachers who constantly insult their students get hated, not listened to. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/292 "2012-07-08T13:17:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What? You think if that the reasons you don’t see Kenyans in the World’s Strongest man competitions is because of lack of interest or training. You’ve got to be kidding. You don’t see any natural differences between the average Kenyan and the average Icelander? Yeah, I don’t see how anyone can say that having some Neanderthal DNA, which Northern Europeans definitely _do_, isn’t a clear advantage in powerlifting. It’s like saying two groups of horses, one with only racehorses as ancestors, and the other with some racehorses plus some Clydesdale ancestors, would not have an average difference in brute strength and pulling power. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/293 "2012-07-08T13:20:28Z")
And you know that Neanderthals were talented powerlifters due to genetics? You know that as a scientific fact? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/294 "2012-07-08T13:22:34Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Hi I am perfectly rational. When I read your list here, my rational mind says “This guy is throwing around words and has not a single piece of data to back it up”. Is it right? Can you present a chain of research that clearly shows that isolation, genetic drift, and selection pressure shaped the athletic characteristics of various populations of African and Europeans? > > Can you show evidence that any of these various populations experienced small enough numbers for genetic drift to be a factor? > > Can you show evidence of selection to produce morphological characteristics that increase or decrease athletic ability? > > Do you have any evidence for anything you say at all except “This group of people dominates this sport therefore it must be genetic?”. Do you have the comphrension of genetics or ability to use your knowledge of genetics to actually consume the evidence that is readily available to you and would clearly present to you there is no evidence supporting your presumptions? Since you know enough about genetics to type the words “genetic drift” are you going to now search out a little enlightening information before filling your child’s head with unresearched suppositions? I posted a link that cited over 100 different studies on morphology by race. What you’re asking for would involve an entire book, and even if I found and posted it, you and your buddies will just ask for more proof, and more proof, ad infinitum. You have wasted enough of my time making me google for links that you won’t even read. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/295 "2012-07-08T13:25:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And you know that Neanderthals were talented powerlifters due to genetics? You know that as a scientific fact? They were built much more strongly, their skeletons were much more robust. Is it “unscientific” to assume that a heavier, more robust, stockier build correlates with greater strength? In addition, the muscle attachment areas on their bones were larger, which also correlates with greater strength. Here’s a link that cites other links, and makes a pretty good start for stating the difference in strength: > **[Yahoo Search - Web Search](https://search.yahoo.com/)** > > The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/296 "2012-07-08T13:41:31Z")
And the genes affecting powerlifting in Neanderthals have been identified and found in European power lifters? “Neanderthals were strong and some Europeans have been shown to have some Neanderthal ancestry thus Europeans have a genetic advantage in power lifting because of Neanderthal genes” isn’t a scientifically valid inference. And you have yet to _genetically_ define European and whatever other groups you’re talking about. Not to mention, as I’ve said before, that the list of powerlifting champions isn’t proof of anything. You have to show that this advantage exists consistently when comparing the _entire_ groups with each other, not just a tiny number of elite athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/297 "2012-07-08T15:43:47Z")
There seems to be some confusion of how the term _population_ is used for the purposes of genetics. (Go with me. John Roberts can says that the term tax has different meanings according to the context it is applied. Same idea here.) A _population_ can be defined simply as a group of individuals of a species which interbreed. Populations are often defined on the basis of geography, not necessarily on the basis of a shared genetic trait. I would not argue that there is a Irish gene, a Finnish gene, or Taiwanese gene. But I could still analyze some trait that is genetically determined and note different gene frequencies amongst these populations. Let’s go with [blood type](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type). Most people are not particularly emotionally invested in blood type differences. Different blood types are expressed at different frequencies in different populations. Without regard to RH factor, > [@Wikipedia blood types article](#): > > Ireland: 55% O, 31% A, 11% B, 3% AB > Finland: 31% O, 44% A, 17% B, 8% AB > Taiwan: 44% O, 26% A, 24% B, 6% AB Now why is blood type A more prevalent in Finnish residents than Taiwanese residents? I have no freaking idea. I’m not aware of any selective advantage one way or the other but there could hypothetically be a selective advantage I am unaware of. Could be due to a founder effect, a population bottleneck, or just plain random chance. Instead of blood types, now consider genes involved in the development and function of the muscular system. ACTN1, ACTN2, ACTN3, ATP2A1, ATP2A2, ATP2A3, SERCA1, TNNI2, and so on… I am not aware of any worldwide studies assessing allele frequencies of these various genes. Such a study _could_ be done, given enough motivation and funding. If SDMB wants to pony up the money then we can get started. But there are some studies specifically related to the ACTN3 gene in various specific populations. Studies compared frequencies of this gene as well as mitochondrial DNA haplotypes. The rs1815739 mutation allele of the ACTN3 gene has been shown to have a high prevalence in the general population with Africans having the lowest incidence and Asians having the highest. (Source: [A common nonsense mutation results in alpha-actinin-3 deficiency in the general population.](http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v21/n4/full/ng0499_353.html) Journal of Nature Genetics, April 1999) > [@Wikipedia article on ACTN3 gene](#): > > Studies have linked the fiber twitch type with ACTN3, i.e. fast twitch fiber abundant individuals carry the non-mutant gene version. Also, studies in elite athletes have shown that the ACTN3 gene may influence athletic performance. Whilst the non-mutant version of the gene is associated with sprint performance, the mutant version is associated with endurance. > > Sources: [ACTN3 genotype is associated with human elite athletic performance.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12879365) (American Journal of Human Genetics, September 2003) > [Mitochondrial DNA and ACTN3 genotypes in Finnish elite endurance and sprint athletes.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15886711) (European Journal of Human Genetics, August 2005) > [Association analysis of the ACTN3 R577X polymorphism and complex quantitative body composition and performance phenotypes in adolescent Greeks.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17033684) (European Journal of Human Genetics, January 2007) > [The ACTN3 R577X nonsense allele is under-represented in elite-level strength athletes.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18043716) (European Journal of Human Genetics, March 2008) Now back to the OP. If we accept the science that there are differences in haplotype and allele frequencies which affect muscle function could those differences have had their allelic frequencies altered by something that happened: in the slave trade? during the middle passage? involving the work and/or living conditions of the enslaved persons? Could phenotype frequencies change just as a result of a founder effect and random genetic drift? Maybe to any or all of those. I wouldn’t say no way. More study is required, as is so often the case. The effect of mtDNA haplotype differences would be well preserved in maternal descent. It would not be subject to recombination in sexual reproduction. Further, it would not be influenced one bit by interbreeding with a male of a different population. _If_ the European ancestry of elite “black”\* athletes was as a result of male(s) of European ancestry fathering a child(ren) by female(s) of African ancestry, then mtDNA is a reasonable means by which only the maternal influence would be seen in the child, and subsequent generations. \*whatever the hell black means. Just trying to use terms from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/298 "2012-07-08T16:18:38Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > There seems to be some confusion of how the term _population_ is used for the purposes of genetics. (Go with me. John Roberts can says that the term tax has different meanings according to the context it is applied. Same idea here.) > > A _population_ can be defined simply as a group of individuals of a species which interbreed. Populations are often defined on the basis of geography, not necessarily on the basis of a shared genetic trait. > > I would not argue that there is a Irish gene, a Finnish gene, or Taiwanese gene. But I could still analyze some trait that is genetically determined and note different gene frequencies amongst these populations.[/SIZE] Maybe I missed it, but I’m not seeing confusion about that here. Where the confusion lies, is jumping from a casual observation to a supposed scientific conclusion, with a lot of just-so stories thrown in as “explanations”. Getting to the bottom or genetic differences in populations the translate to physiological differences that translate into advantages/disadvantages at specific sports is difficult scientific work to do. We can’t do double blind or control studies. We can’t do multiple generational breeding experiments. We can’t do any number of things that we routinely do with animals or inanimate objects in order to understand how things work in nature. That is not to say that there might not be such differences in human populations, and things like height are proof positive that some do exist. But that doesn’t mean every time you see a certain population excelling at some activity that there is a genetic basis for it. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/299 "2012-07-08T16:39:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but I’m not seeing confusion about that here. … > [@Acsenray](#): > > And you have yet to _genetically_ define European and whatever other groups you’re talking about. … The point is you do not have to _genetically_ identify individuals to be able to assign them to a population or “group”. Not at all. You can define the population and then proceed to analyze the genetics. For the purposes of population genetics it does not matter that I cannot look at the genetic traits of one particular individual and thereby unambiguously assign him to a population group. It only matters that the group as a whole has a certian distribution of alleles. For the purposes of population genetics it is sufficent to define a population as “those persons whose ancestors resided west of the Ural mountains and north of the Mediterranean sea” or “those persons with primary residences in the states comprising the European Union” or however you might want to define European. Doesn’t matter. Certain sub-populations (those of West African, and those of Central or South American heritage) have a much higher prevalence of sickle cell trait than the larger population of all humans. It is theorized (using the term theory as in \*has pretty damn good evidence based upon reliable data) that individuals heterozygous for the sickle cell trait have a selective survival advantage when infected with malaria. You walk into a hospital ward and are told the patient in bed 3 has malaria. What does that tell you about whether he is heterozygous for the sickle cell trait? Not a damn thing. You walk into thousands of hospitals and are told the hospitals are collectively treating 100,000 malaria patients. What does that tell you about whether those patients are heterozygous for the sickle cell trait? Quite a lot. I cannot look at the one patient and say anything about his individual status. But I can look at the group as a whole and say with a certain level of statistical confidence that the 100,000 patients, on average, are less likely to be heterozygous for the sickle cell trait than the populations as a whole from where they come. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/300 "2012-07-08T16:50:49Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I posted a link that cited over 100 different studies on morphology by race. > > What you’re asking for would involve an entire book, and even if I found and posted it, you and your buddies will just ask for more proof, and more proof, ad infinitum. > > You have wasted enough of my time making me google for links that you won’t even read. Your link gave me “404”. So that is zero studies as far as I am concerned. It doesn’t require an entire book, just links to articles that demonstrate the chain. It’d be convincing. > [@Iggy](#): > > The point is you do not have to _genetically_ identify individuals to be able to assign them to a population or “group”. Not at all. I defined my population as elite atheletes. From my google scholar search of actn3 it seems that no matter where you go, elite athletes are enriched for the fast-twitch allele. Africans, Europeans, Asians, so on and so forth…so now what? Also, please address my earlier post asking you for a single datum of genetic evidence that African-Americans underwent a population bottleneck, natural/artificial selection, or other population level genetic changes. I ask several question regarding reasonably expected changes that do not show up in the literature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=16)