# Critique this: Why blacks run faster **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414 "2012-07-06T13:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/681 "2012-08-06T13:20:54Z")
Right. Those eight finalists last night were adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/682 "2012-08-06T13:54:31Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Right. Those eight finalists last night were adopted. I didn’t say that. In fact, I didn’t come within miles of saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/683 "2012-08-06T14:41:25Z")
And a disproportionate number of the top swimmers in the Olympics have been from that mongrel race of creatures we call Americans. That doesn’t mean an evolutionary theory for American strength in “swimming faster” is warranted or justified. As has been repeatedly stated, until you level the playing field by properly accounting for all other variables (environmental, social, biological), it is just as scientifically invalid to say that slave descendants are evolutionarily fit for running fast as it is scientifically invalid to say similar selection pressures make Americans fit for swimming fast. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/684 "2012-08-06T18:53:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Nowadays, every year large numbers of high school runners break the four minute mile. You should provide a cite for that. I think it’s national news when a high school athlete runs a sub-four minute mile and only a handful have done it. It’s hard to tell by reading the relevant wiki articles, but Wikipedia seems to bear that out. It seems to say it’s only been done by 5 high schoolers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/685 "2012-08-06T19:17:09Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > You should provide a cite for that. I think it’s national news when a high school athlete runs a sub-four minute mile and only a handful have done it. > > It’s hard to tell by reading the relevant wiki articles, but Wikipedia seems to bear that out. It seems to say it’s only been done by 5 high schoolers. I mentioned that because I thought I remembered someone mentioning it on a similar thread. I guess I was wrong. However, I don’t think that detracts from the point that it turns out people were wrong about how difficult running a four minute mile is. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/686 "2012-08-06T20:25:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I mentioned that because I thought I remembered someone mentioning it on a similar thread. > > I guess I was wrong. However, I don’t think that detracts from the point that it turns out people were wrong about how difficult running a four minute mile is. FFS. It’s not if you run on a modern track as opposed to tinder, modern shoes as opposed to some weighty leather things, an understanding of the effect of diet, of training techniques, of how to train for sustained periods without suffering injury, and are not a full time student under pressure of exams during the process of qualifying as a doctor and only having 45-minutes a day to train. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/687 "2012-08-06T22:35:18Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > FFS. > > It’s not if you run on a modern track as opposed to tinder, modern shoes as opposed to some weighty leather things, an understanding of the effect of diet, of training techniques, of how to train for sustained periods without suffering injury, and are not a full time student under pressure of exams during the process of qualifying as a doctor and only having 45-minutes a day to train. That’s a rather long, runon sentence. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/688 "2012-08-06T23:15:08Z")
Blacks faster than whites overall in short and long distance running? Really?! _::::faints::::_ Jeez! If it wasn’t for this thread I wouldn’t even have imagined that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/689 "2012-08-06T23:24:22Z")
PS-Only in The Dope would it take 14 pages to agree on a well-established fact. Or maybe some of you should spend more time _actually watching_ Track & Field than trying to make your brains grow unnaturally larger through the dreaded “I debate simply because I can. Reality be dammed.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/690 "2012-08-07T00:51:30Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Blacks faster than whites overall in short and long distance running? Really?! > > _::::faints::::_ > > Jeez! If it wasn’t for this thread I wouldn’t even have imagined that. :rolleyes: > [@RedFury](#): > > PS-Only in The Dope would it take 14 pages to agree on a well-established fact. Or maybe some of you should spend more time _actually watching_ Track & Field than trying to make your brains grow unnaturally larger through the dreaded “I debate simply because I can. Reality be dammed.” So, first you make an erroneous claim\*, then pretend to be shocked, then make a separate claim about the discussion in this thread–one that is also wrong–and then you post an insult. I would suggest that you simply avoid controversial threads in the future. = = = - While it might be true that some blacks are faster in sprints than whites and some blacks are faster at marathons than whites, it should be noted that they are separate groups, living in different places, with only the artificial construct of skin color to make them appear similar. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/691 "2012-08-07T01:05:21Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Yep, we know this. We’re looking primarily at the influence of slavery. > > On the issue of DNA mix, as well as an Anglo-Saxon component, other African regions and groups are also interesting - the Slave Coast was the length of the USA and central American combined and to a depth inland of several hundred miles, and at a time when people were very settled. Variation within that coast are equally interesting. Well, your second paragraph indicates that one might pursue theories regarding DNA and populations, (regardless whether any of those theories bear fruit), however your first statement reminds me that you have pretty carefully avoided responding to the [critique of your OP that I provided](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15245544#post15245544), (the critique that your OP claimed it sought), 32 days ago. For you to return to this thread with more unsupported guesses about how things might be when you have failed to support or defend the original silliness is a bit odd. For you to demand that others stay out of “your” thread is unnecessarily brazen. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/692 "2012-08-07T03:08:40Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > PS-Only in The Dope would it take 14 pages to agree on a well-established fact. Or maybe some of you should spend more time _actually watching_ Track & Field than trying to make your brains grow unnaturally larger through the dreaded “I debate simply because I can. Reality be dammed.” You’re forgetting that humans can argue anything if it relates to an issue of faith. Look at debates about religion. For some people the idea that there are biological differences between groups due to diverse evolution offends their idea of equality. Accordingly, people will argue regardless of the facts on the ground to protect a “sacred” belief or value. btw. here is one [explanation](http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/speediest-athletes-its-all-center-gravity) for the average differences: > [@](#): > > There is a whole body of evidence showing that there are distinct differences in body types among blacks and whites,” said Jones, who specializes in adolescent obesity, nutrition and anthropometry, the study of body composition. “These are real patterns being described here – whether the fastest sprinters are Jamaican, African or Canadian – most of them can be traced back generally to Western Africa.” > “Blacks tend to have longer limbs with smaller circumferences, meaning that their centers of gravity are higher compared to whites of the same height,” Bejan said. “Asians and whites tend to have longer torsos, so their centers of gravity are lower.” > > Bejan and Jones cite past studies of the human body which found that on average, the center of gravity is about three percent higher in blacks than whites. Using this difference in body types, the researchers calculated that black sprinters are 1.5 percent faster than whites, while whites have the same advantage over blacks in the water. The difference might seem small, Bejan said, but not when considering that world records in sprinting and swimming are typically broken by fractions of seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/693 "2012-08-07T03:51:30Z")
There were two items on my TV today: Olympic Track and Field, and the Curiosity landing. With the exception of Charles Bolden, ex astronaut, the scientists on the Curiosity project appeared to my ridiculously-biased and assumption-making eye to be predominately from groups which would self-characterize as white or asian. The star Olympic track and field sprinters (again, to my ridiculously biased and assumption-making eye) appeared to be from groups that would self-characterize as black. I get it that there are fancy-dan cultural/nurturing/social/historical explanations for this, but I have a dickens of a time buying it. Sorta feels like the religious flim flammers 'splainin why God loves all his chilluns right after the two most recent massacres in Colorado and Wisconsin. I’m going with genes as the explanation, and not just because of one day of TV. It’s because the same pattern of differences is repeated over and over in every country; every culture; every political systems; every history. And mis-measuring of men to the contrary, I don’t have any trouble believing that a socially constructed self-description of “black” gives a man a higher probability of good sprinting genes, and a socially constructed self-description of “asian” gives a man a higher probability of genes that are good for quantitative sciences, and that this difference is repeatedly quantified on standardized exams and born out in real life. Since we are talking about average differences in fairly coarse groups, I am unsurprised at occasional exceptions, but it’s hard to move me off my position when the pattern is repeated with boring regularity over and over again, even when enormous energy and money is spent trying to obliterate it… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/694 "2012-08-07T13:25:26Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I’m going with genes as the explanation, and not just because of one day of TV. It’s because the same pattern of differences is repeated over and over in every country; every culture; every political systems; every history. False. Sprinting has only been dominated by “blacks” in the last several decades or so. Other sports were dominated by other ethnicities in various parts of the last century- including Jews in basketball, and whites’ current over-representation in golf, tennis, and hockey. Why is _now_ suddenly an accurate representation of inherent genetic advantages? Fifty years ago, would you have thought that Jews had an inherent genetic advantage in basketball? A hundred years ago would you have thought the Chinese had a genetic advantage in manual labor? What’s so special about _now_? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/695 "2012-08-07T13:27:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why is _now_ suddenly an accurate representation of inherent genetic advantages? Fifty years ago, would you have thought that Jews had an inherent genetic advantage in basketball? A hundred years ago would you have thought the Chinese had a genetic advantage in manual labor? What’s so special about _now_? Money. You find a better athlete, he’ll earn you more money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/696 "2012-08-07T13:36:47Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Money. > > You find a better athlete, he’ll earn you more money. This was true in the past too- though athletes certainly earn more now. To me it’s a pretty extraordinary claim that it just so happens that _now_ is the time that any genetic advantages inherent to certain ethnic groups finally explain any statistical differences in the representation of various ethnic groups in athletic or other achievements, and therefore past differences can be explained by culture, economics, or some other factor. If these other factors could explain why Jews dominated basketball in the mid-20th century, I don’t see why they can’t explain things now. It is possible that there are genetic advantages for certain athletic or other achievements inherent to certain ethnic groups. But statistical “domination” buy one ethnicity or another is not sufficient evidence for this- if it was, then it would have been enough evidence 50 years ago. In order to support the “genetic explanation”, genetic evidence is required. The genes that make people run faster would need to be identified, then a broad genetic survey would need to be performed that shows some ethnicities have these genes more (on average) than others, and then it would need to be confirmed by correlating the presence of these genes with faster run times. Short of this, I see no reason to believe that “black” domination in sprinting is any more genetically-based then “white” domination in tennis, or past Jewish domination of basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/697 "2012-08-07T14:46:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > False. Sprinting has only been dominated by “blacks” in the last several decades or so. Other sports were dominated by other ethnicities in various parts of the last century- including Jews in basketball, and whites’ current over-representation in golf, tennis, and hockey. > > Why is _now_ suddenly an accurate representation of inherent genetic advantages? Fifty years ago, would you have thought that Jews had an inherent genetic advantage in basketball? A hundred years ago would you have thought the Chinese had a genetic advantage in manual labor? What’s so special about _now_? What’s so special about “now”? Inclusiveness, at the front end, for the candidate pool of participants. I hold that if the candidate pool for the Hebrew leagues had included blacks motivated and allowed to play, the “Hebrew” part of the South Philadelphia Hebrew Association would have been seriously misnomer-ed. We’ve been down this road, and repeating the same trails ad nauseum is why the Pedant doesn’t post much. But…in summary your conclusion is ridiculous. 80 years ago I would have said that the Jewish dominance in basketball was because blacks were excluded from their league and basketball was not the first choice of careers for the vast majority of capable players. It didn’t pay much, it didn’t make you much of a star beyond your cultural group, and it was definitely not a career sought above all others. Today basketball is open to all candidates, pays a fortune, rewards with international stardom and lifetime supply of pretty girls, and is seldom abandoned as a career choice until its obvious you ain’t gonna be NBA material. In short, every putative player keeps at it until they are weeded out, and the spectacular-ness of the prize should you make the NBA keeps the candidate pool very large, and very representative across populations. Even white kids dream of the NBA–they just get weeded out sooner. What is special about “now” is that it’s easy to show the candidate pool is more inclusive, the career choice is more universally placed as the priority choice, and nurturing–if anything–favors the groups who are under-represented. It’s a hell of a lot tougher to make it into adulthood as a functional member of the NBA if you are black than if you are white or asian. Lamer family and social structure; lamer facilities; lamer coaching… But as I keep telling Tomndebb and others who love that Jewish League: Look, if you want to believe the Inuit will dominate the NBA next, and that all populations are more or less equivalent for maximum potential for various skillsets with the exception of nurturing advantages, have at it. It makes mother nature seem a nicer person, it preserves the Religion of Genetic Equality (which we all love), and it even gives the Creationists a nice boost. If you are actually interested in the SPHA and other Jewish leagues, may I recommend Jon Entine’s “Taboo,” chapter 15? On page 202 you can read about Hall of Famer Barney Sedran. 5’ 4" and 118 pounds; played for one of the greatest teams of the 19th century–the New York Whirlwinds. I’m sure he’d be a star even today, because hey–it’s just cultural shifts and one can readily compare today’s NBA talent pool with the Jewish leagues. Same talent level; same playing ability. Just different periods in history, right? Surely the New York Whirlwinds would give the New York Knicks a run for their money… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/698 "2012-08-07T14:55:08Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > But…in summary your conclusion is ridiculous. 80 years ago I would have said that the Jewish dominance in basketball was because blacks were excluded from their league and basketball was not the first choice of careers for the vast majority of capable players. It didn’t pay much, it didn’t make you much of a star beyond your cultural group, and it was definitely not a career sought above all others. Today basketball is open to all candidates, pays a fortune, rewards with international stardom and lifetime supply of pretty girls, and is seldom abandoned as a career choice until its obvious you ain’t gonna be NBA material. In short, every putative player keeps at it until they are weeded out, and the spectacular-ness of the prize should you make the NBA keeps the candidate pool very large, and very representative across populations. Even white kids dream of the NBA–they just get weeded out sooner. Of course- all things are finally equal _now_, and everyone finally has an equal shot _now_. How could I have missed that? > [@](#): > > What is special about “now” is that it’s easy to show the candidate pool is more inclusive, the career choice is more universally placed as the priority choice, and nurturing–if anything–favors the groups who are under-represented. It’s a hell of a lot tougher to make it into adulthood as a functional member of the NBA if you are black than if you are white or asian. Lamer family and social structure; lamer facilities; lamer coaching… Of course- various statistical “oddities” couldn’t possibly have anything to do with things like the concentration of basketball courts in inner cities, or the massive popularity of High School Football in the Gulf South. These things exist, but they are obviously swamped by the equality of opportunity in all areas of our society that allows inherent genetic advantages to reveal themselves. > [@](#): > > But as I keep telling Tomndebb and others who love that Jewish League: Look, if you want to believe the Inuit will dominate the NBA next, and that all populations are more or less equivalent for maximum potential for various skillsets with the exception of nurturing advantages, have at it. It makes mother nature seem a nicer person, it preserves the Religion of Genetic Equality (which we all love), and it even gives the Creationists a nice boost. So insisting upon genetic evidence for a genetic explanation boosts the Creationists? Is there a Godwinesque rule that applies here? I’ll quote myself: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It is possible that there are genetic advantages for certain athletic or other achievements inherent to certain ethnic groups. But statistical “domination” buy one ethnicity or another is not sufficient evidence for this- if it was, then it would have been enough evidence 50 years ago. In order to support the “genetic explanation”, genetic evidence is required. The genes that make people run faster would need to be identified, then a broad genetic survey would need to be performed that shows some ethnicities have these genes more (on average) than others, and then it would need to be confirmed by correlating the presence of these genes with faster run times. > > Short of this, I see no reason to believe that “black” domination in sprinting is any more genetically-based then “white” domination in tennis, or past Jewish domination of basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/699 "2012-08-07T15:26:53Z")
I will readily concede your point that the only absolute evidence for genetic differences needs to be…genetic. For the forseeable future I think you’ll be able to take refuge in that since our grasp of genetics is so rudimentary. I don’t think I’d bet on taking refuge for the long-term, though. In the non-human world where political correctness is unimportant, we don’t think we need to identify alleles to figure out that greyhounds will probably–on average–outsprint chihuahuas. Most of us might even make casual arguments that a mutt with access to greyhound ancestry has a better chance of beating out a mutt without any access to fast-dog ancestry. Genes, and all that, even if we can’t identify the exact ones. And the thing that drives that conclusion is that no amount of nurturing is gonna get that chihuahua to greyhound performance levels. What we are doing is normalizing nurturing, and then coming to the conclusion that the residual difference must be genetic. So for candidate skillsets in the human world, we have to look at the total starting pool (is it representative across populations?) and nurturing advantages (have they been normalized?). If the starting pool is representative and the nurturing advantages are normalized, that’s sufficient for me to conclude the average differences are driven by genetics. I am underwhelmed by this idea that blacks are more successful in basketball for cultural reasons. We gravitate toward what we excel at, and we excel at what we are genetically gifted for. I do not personally buy the lazy-white-gives-up-NBA-to-be-a-career-salesman and the gutsy-black-plays-basketball-instead-of-schooling meme, but if you do, well…that’s the Debate, isn’t it? I submit that you could look across the entire world, in every culture or political situation or national history and find the same patterns of success in the same skillsets repeated over and over again for the various self-described groups…nah…gotta be a coincidence or a conspiracy…I mean–we humans have only been around a few thousand years and all had Adam and Eve start us off just recently, right? Just one big uniform family? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/700 "2012-08-07T15:46:05Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I will readily concede your point that the only absolute evidence for genetic differences needs to be…genetic. For the forseeable future I think you’ll be able to take refuge in that since our grasp of genetics is so rudimentary. I don’t think I’d bet on taking refuge for the long-term, though. I’m not making any bets- I’m just saying that I don’t accept a genetic explanation without genetic evidence. How could I? Even if it’s inherent to one ethnicity, that doesn’t mean it’s genetic- it could have some other biological explanation. > [@](#): > > I am underwhelmed by this idea that blacks are more successful in basketball for cultural reasons. We gravitate toward what we excel at, and we excel at what we are genetically gifted for. I do not personally buy the lazy-white-gives-up-NBA-to-be-a-career-salesman and the gutsy-black-plays-basketball-instead-of-schooling meme, but if you do, well…that’s the Debate, isn’t it? So why don’t “blacks” dominate Tennis, a sport that requires speed, strength, coordination, and overall athleticism? Could it be cultural? > [@](#): > > I submit that you could look across the entire world, in every culture or political situation or national history and find the same patterns of success in the same skillsets repeated over and over again for the various self-described groups…nah…gotta be a coincidence or a conspiracy…I mean–we humans have only been around a few thousand years and all had Adam and Eve start us off just recently, right? Just one big uniform family? More Creationism garbage… but aside from that, I don’t even get your point here. Are you saying that “blacks” have always dominated basketball, or even sprinting? I don’t follow this paragraph at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=36)