# Critique this: Why blacks run faster **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414 "2012-07-06T13:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/802 "2012-08-10T04:55:35Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I recognize each point here is a subject of some debate. That is, in fact, the debate. But it’s irrelevant what actual percent of recent sub-saharan ancestry a given black athlete has. What’s important is whether or not he has a particular gene, and the fact that sub-saharan ancestry is over-represented while nurturing favors the other group, lends credence to the view that the difference is genetic. If the European gene pool contained those same genes in the same proportion, the successful pool would be composed of all groups in proportion to the start number. For what it’s worth I’d bet nearly every European gets a reasonable chance to find out if they are any good at any given sport, while a much smaller percentage of sub-saharan kids get the same opportunity. They got other stuff to worry about, like eking out a living within their crappy political and social structures. A French sports journalist has a new book out on the [sprinting issue](http://www.france24.com/en/20120805-france-usain-bolt-black-sprinters-dominate-olympics). > [@](#): > > “I had been commissioned to write a biography of Usain Bolt at a time when Lemaitre became the first white athlete capable of running the 100-metre in under 10 seconds,” Leclaire told FRANCE 24. Lemaitre’s success on the track stirred the former athletics columnist to expand his mission slightly. > > “Up to now, apart from Lemaitre and Australia’s Patrick Johnson, all the sprinters who have run the 100-metre in under 10 seconds were either born in West Africa or were descendants from slaves from West Africa,” he said. > > “Lemaitre broke down all the prejudices and stereotyping, so I decided to write a book to raise the debate around this issue,” he said. > > Over 361 pages, Leclaire examined the link between sporting performance and country of origin. > > He studied a range of existing theories, including one that points to the so-called “innate muscle” makeup of black sprinters and another that argues that the supposed greater length of Kenyan runners’ femurs gave them an advantage. Other arguments revolved around the apparent thinner skin and lighter internal organs of black athletes. > > In a 2010 study, two American academics insisted that black athletes’ dominance of the sport was down to their higher centre of gravity. > > The legacy of slavery and the need to escape poverty are also more controversial theories that have come and gone… > > By the end of his research, Leclaire was left in no doubt. For him, “athletic performance is largely determined by genetics and specifically ACTN3, the so-called ‘sprint gene’”. > > The ACTN3 was discovered for the first time by a team of Australian researchers in 2003. It is a gene present in all humans in two forms, either the RR form which helps speed, or the RX form which aids endurance. > > “Since its discovery, a lot of research has shown that the RR form of the gene gives those who hold it explosive muscle power when the body is put under a certain amount of physical stress, so it’s a natural predisposition for sprinters,” Leclaire explained. > > “If you had a weak form of ACTN 3, it would be impossible to match the great sprinters,” he said. > > Leclaire concluded that the genes favourable for sprinting are more commonly found in those of West African origin. > > There are exceptions, of course, which explains how French sprinter Lemaitre has been able to compete in the same class as the likes of Bolt and fellow Jamaican sprinter Yohan Blake. > > “Lemaitre posesses the same genetic combinations that you find in most of the athletes of West African origin. He is the exception that confirms the rule,” Leclaire said. > > East Africa, by contrast, is the land of the long-distance runner. > > Author John Entine believes genetics also explains the continuing supremacy of Kenya’s runners in long distance races. > > “They are short and slender with huge natural lung capacity and a preponderance of slow twitch muscles, the energy system for endurance sports,” Entine wrote on the website [blackathlete.net](http://blackathlete.net). “It’s a perfect biomechanical package for long-distance running but a disaster for sports that require anaerobic bursts of speed.” Entine’s article also notes (for those discussing the [Kenyan running success](http://www.blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Track_amp_Field_36/Why_Black_Athletes_Dominate_Sports_and_Why_We_re_A_188.shtml)): > [@](#): > > “The Kenyans are born with a high number of slow twitch fibers,” states Bengt Saltin, director of the Copenhagen Muscle Research Institute and author of a September Scientific American article on why athletes are more “born” than “made.” East Africans “have 70 to 75 percent of their muscle fibers being slow… Very many in sports physiology would like to believe that it is training, the environment, what you eat that plays the most important role. But we argue based on the data that it is “in your genes” whether or not you are talented or whether you will become talented. " There is no question about that. The extent of the environment can always be discussed, but it’s less than 20, 25 percent. It’s definitely a dominant factor, [that is to say,] how they are born.”… > > Of course, neither culture nor genes alone determines who will become great athletes. It’s biocultural. Taboo documents the wholly uncontroversial fact that different body types have evolved in differing environments over thousands of years: Inuit Indians (Eskimos), biologically programmed to be short to conserve body heat, do not produce NBA centers after relocating to southern Florida. Genetically linked, highly heritable characteristics, such as skeletal structure, muscle fiber types, reflex capabilities, metabolic efficiency, and lung capacity, are not evenly distributed among populations and cannot be explained by known environmental factors. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/803 "2012-08-10T05:51:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, so at one point do you determine that someone is of \ African descent. I thought I told you I wasn’t answering any more stupid questions. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Have you seen pictures of all the sprinters and determined from looking at them that they’re of \ African descent or did you just assume that they were? I assume runners from all African and Caribbean countries are Black. I had to google images of several of the runners from other countries. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, so then by your logic anyone who self-indentifies as “black” should be considered of \ African descent"? Yes. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Correct? If not please explain why you said you based your judgment on “appearance and self-identification”. Addressed. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er…if you’re making you’re determination based on “appearance and self-identification” why would the standards be different for “hurdlers” than for “elite politicians, entertainers, judges, etc.”. > > I’m sorry but your logic is grossly lacking. See below. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ah, so now you’re backtracking. Initially, you claimed that you thought they were of “primarily African descent” due to “appearance and self-identification” but now you’re admitting that you had no reason to believe this other than they were of “African diaspora populations” and so you “assumed” that they were of “predominantly African descent”. The predominance of African ancestry among US Blacks not an assumption, it is estimate based on scientifically collected data. See p6 Table 5 and p9 Table 8 of link: [Estimating African American Admixture Proportions](http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/ParraAJHG1998.pdf) Also note the \>90% African ancestry reported for Jamaica in Table 5. It is reasonable to assume that African ancestry percentages for the rest of the Caribbean countries are higher than for the US since all Caribbean countries have a higher percentage African population. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, you know what they say you do when you “assume” something. Depends on who is doing the assuming. People like you are likely to hurt your arguments with botched assumptions. People like me are likely to strengthen our arguments with sound assumptions, such as that taken collectively African-American athletes probably possess 80% African ancestry, with a large majority being more than (viz. _primarily_) 50% African. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’d recommend that next time you start spouting racist myths you use logic rather than pseudo science and bullshit. I recommend you start accepting the evidence of your own eyesight the next time you watch Olympic runners in action. All science begins with observation, and if you assume your observations _do not_ reflect reality than you need to get your eyes examined, and you need also to examine your mental state, or better, have a professional examine it for you. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Note, I’m not accusing you of being stupid or racist, but your arguments are highly illogical and ill-thought out. I know the stupid games they play around here—fine and dandy to say anything you like about a member’s writing, as long as you don’t attack the member himself. Hope I’m on the right side of the line when I say it might hurt to hear such venom from someone who I respected, but coming from you I could care less. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/804 "2012-08-10T07:13:40Z")
Colonial, Why are you trying to pretend that you only claimed the sprinters were of “partial” African descent when anyone can read your initial post where you specifically claimed they were “primarily of African descent”. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15363324&postcount=748](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15363324&postcount=748) > [@](#): > > Here are the number of athletes of **primarily African ancestry** among the all-time top 10 hurdles times: > > 9/10 Mens’ 110m (including present WR) > 10/10 Mens’ 400 (including present WR) > 4/10 Womens’ 100 > 7/10 Womens’ 400 Had you initially claimed the sprinters were of “partial African ancestry”, which no one would have disputed, instead of rather revealingly and stupidly claiming they were “of primarily African ancestry” I wouldn’t have asked you what made you say such a thing and you wouldn’t have given such evasive answers nor would you have needed to go alter and misrepresent my statements to try and cover up your statements. > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq > Yes, so then by your logic anyone who self-indentifies as “black” should be considered of “primarily African descent”? > > Yes. Ok, so then by your logic, Thurgood Marshall, who was, according to one of his biographers “one eighth negro and seven eighths caucasian” and had two sons who were both blonde-haired and blue-eyed should be considered of “primarily African descent.” Please explain the logic behind classifying someone who is "one eighth negro and seven eighths caucasian"as being of “primarily African descent”. I ask because such an assertion strikes me as being extremely illogical to the point of being in denial of reality. Please explain. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Hope I’m on the right side of the line when I say it > might hurt to hear such venom from someone who I respected, but coming > from you I could care less. I have not made any comments about you personally, merely you’re arguments, which I’ve shredded. I see no reason for you to make personal insults at me. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/805 "2012-08-10T07:40:35Z")
Immediately prior to the 200m Final last night, this topic was discussed in a 10-minute segment on the main BBC channel by a few pundits in the Olympic Stadium studio, including Michael Johnson. It was introduced on the basis that it’s difficult to ignore 81 of 82 men who’ve run under 10-seconds for 100m have been slave descendents. The short package before the studio chit-chat approached it from a Darwinian pov (itself not a controversial theory in the UK); the idea was that slavery – of at least the methods of transportation, related diseases and work regime - may have induced a kind of accelerated natural selection (of the fittest). They briefly noted the potential for mutation in very short time (even one generation) under extreme conditions, though the discussion was mainly between former athletes who don’t know any more than the average person. Nothing much arose but the idea was obv. to overcome any remaining taboo and offer the public food for thought on a subject that’s blatantly in front of their eyes (and about to be underlined by a Jamaician 1, 2, 3 in the 200m). Nice to see a discussion without hysteria and an unwillingness to consider (continually) emerging science because it offends - possibly patriotic based - middle-cass sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/806 "2012-08-10T07:45:07Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I assume runners from all African and Caribbean countries are Black. This is an unsafe assumption of olympic athletes as a whole. [http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/\_I\_want\_to\_swim\_like\_him\_one\_day\_-164972656.html](http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_I_want_to_swim_like_him_one_day_-164972656.html) George Bovell for example. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/807 "2012-08-10T12:22:22Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Immediately prior to the 200m Final last night, this topic was discussed in a 10-minute segment on the main BBC channel by a few pundits in the Olympic Stadium studio, including Michael Johnson. It was introduced on the basis that it’s difficult to ignore 81 of 82 men who’ve run under 10-seconds for 100m have been slave descendents. > > The short package before the studio chit-chat approached it from a Darwinian pov (itself not a controversial theory in the UK); the idea was that slavery – of at least the methods of transportation, related diseases and work regime - may have induced a kind of accelerated natural selection (of the fittest). They briefly noted the potential for mutation in very short time (even one generation) under extreme conditions, though the discussion was mainly between former athletes who don’t know any more than the average person. > > Nothing much arose but the idea was obv. to overcome any remaining taboo and offer the public food for thought on a subject that’s blatantly in front of their eyes (and about to be underlined by a Jamaician 1, 2, 3 in the 200m). > > Nice to see a discussion without hysteria and an unwillingness to consider (continually) emerging science because it offends - possibly patriotic based - middle-cass sensibilities. Yeah but once again the documentary gave the impression that this was the consensus view and that evidence is building but it is really a very tentative hypothesis at this stage. I’ve already ran into a number of people citing it as fact thanks to the previous BBC documentary. And if we’re going to say that we need a specific story to account for why people of W African descent have a certain kind of fast twitch muscle, do we need a similar story to account for (parts of) east africa running endurance? We know that there are differences between populations, we don’t need a recent episode to pin it to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/808 "2012-08-10T13:00:38Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > > > Ok, so at one point do you determine that someone is of \ African descent. > > I thought I told you I wasn’t answering any more stupid questions. **colonial** , don’t alter text inside the quote boxes. We allow minor edits, but here you’ve changed the word “primarily” to “partial,” which means something different. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/809 "2012-08-10T14:50:44Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah but once again the documentary gave the impression that this was the consensus view and that evidence is building but it is really a very tentative hypothesis at this stage. I’ve already ran into a number of people citing it as fact thanks to the previous BBC documentary. This is the first time the BBC has touched on it asaik - the hour long doc with Michael Johnson was on C4. This was pretty straightforward stuff with John Inverdale posing the questions, and three athletes chipping in with their opinions. I get the impression the consensus is a little firmer among academics who work in that area than it is elsewhere but, sure, it’s still early days. > [@Mijin](#): > > And if we’re going to say that we need a specific story to account for why people of W African descent have a certain kind of fast twitch muscle, do we need a similar story to account for (parts of) east africa running endurance? > We know that there are differences between populations, we don’t need a recent episode to pin it to. They’re discrete. The issue here is the impact or not of slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/810 "2012-08-10T16:36:08Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > This is the first time the BBC has touched on it asaik - the hour long doc with Michael Johnson was on C4. Ah, my bad, I thought they were both BBC. > [@](#): > > This was pretty straightforward stuff with John Inverdale posing the questions, and three athletes chipping in with their opinions. Well before that was a 10-minute documentary that began by talking about the theory of evolution then went into eugenics and nazism (sigh), before arriving at the theory while showing drawings of slave ships / slaves being tortured. It’s a pretty brave thing to show at such a high ratings time, and I’m not sure why when it’s just an early hypothesis. And I wouldn’t blame anyone for being offended by the programme; I thought it was in poor taste. > [@](#): > > I get the impression the consensus is a little firmer among academics who work in that area than it is elsewhere but, sure, it’s still early days. Firmer about what? The gene, or the hypothesis about why its frequency is higher among those of WA descent? What evidence is there to support the hypothesis of recent selection? > [@](#): > > They’re discrete. The issue here is the impact or not of slavery. Sure. I’m just pointing out that populations vary in any case. The surprise would be if all populations had exactly the same sprinting ability. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/811 "2012-08-10T16:49:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **colonial** , don’t alter text inside the quote boxes. We allow minor edits, but here you’ve changed the word “primarily” to “partial,” which means something different. In post#744 I said this: > [@colonial](#): > > Here are the number of athletes of primarily African ancestry among the all-time top 10 hurdles times In post #798 I amended it: > [@colonial](#): > > So to be precisely logical I should have used the word “partially” rather than “primarily”. Then in post #799 Ibn Warraq continued to use the original quotation thereby mischaracterizing my argument. It was necessary to restore accuracy to his part of the dialgue, and the means I chose was legitimate, since anyone who had read our entire conversation would know what I did and why I did it. Had you read our entire conversation? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/812 "2012-08-10T16:54:51Z")
I guess people are too busy arguing to actually watch what’s going on. There was a Caucasian in the final of the men’s 200 meters yesterday: Christophe Lemaitre of France. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/813 "2012-08-10T16:59:00Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Colonial, > > Why are you trying to pretend that you only claimed the sprinters were of “partial” … See my reply #807 to Marley. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I have not made any comments about you personally, merely you’re arguments, which I’ve shredded. In your dreams. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I see no reason for you to make personal insults at me. Oh no! I have not made any comments about you personally, merely your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/814 "2012-08-10T17:00:14Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I guess people are too busy arguing to actually watch what’s going on. There was a Caucasian in the final of the men’s 200 meters yesterday: Christophe Lemaitre of France. Indeed. He is the one in the 81 out of 82 who have run sub 10 seconds for 100m. Is that about 1.2% of the sub 10 sec group that are not slave descendents? ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/815 "2012-08-10T17:17:00Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I guess people are too busy arguing to actually watch what’s going on. There was a Caucasian in the final of the men’s 200 meters yesterday: Christophe Lemaitre of France. I guess some people have no sense of proportion whatever. Who would you expect to finish 1-2-3 in the race-- Jamaica (pop. 2.889 million, GDP per capita $9029, or France (pop. 65.350 million, GDP per capita $35613)? BTW Lemaitre recently became the only Caucasian ever to run 100m in under 10.0sec. There have been several hundred of African ancestry who have done so, the first over 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/816 "2012-08-10T17:23:00Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > In your dreams. Since you’ve freely admitted that you were wrong to say they were “primarily” of African descent and that you should have said “partially” of African descent, this comment is ridiculous. You’ve admitted that I shredded your arguments and that you should have said “partially” not “primarily”. > [@](#): > > Oh no! > > I have not made any comments about you personally, merely your arguments. You either have forgotten what you wrote, didn’t understand the significance of it, or are trying to pretend you said something different. You claimed: > [@](#): > > Quote: > Hope I’m on the right side of the line when I say it > might hurt to hear such venom from someone who I respected, but coming > from you I could care less. When you say the arguments might mean something coming from someone other than me, you’re making a comment about me, not my arguments. Anyway, I’m sorry I humiliated and upset you. Hopefully the next time you’ll make better thought out arguments. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/817 "2012-08-10T17:32:42Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > …There have been > several hundred of African ancestry who have done so, the first over 40 years ago. Correction: there have been several hundred performances under 10.0sec, but several runners accomplished the feat several times, and the total number of individual numbers is as PrettyVacant informs us in his last post. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/818 "2012-08-10T18:11:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Since you’ve freely admitted that you were wrong to say they were “primarily” of African descent and that you should have said “partially” of African descent, this comment is ridiculous. You’ve admitted that I shredded your arguments and that you should have said “partially” not “primarily”… > > …Anyway, I’m sorry I humiliated and upset you. Hopefully the next time you’ll make better thought out arguments. I am not familar with your writing, but if our exchange is typical your strategy seems to be to focus on trivialities, and to declare yourself the winner regardless of how effectively someone rebuts you. While at it you avoid the important issues, which you must know you are hopelessly unequipped to engage. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You either have forgotten what you wrote, didn’t understand the significance of it, or are trying to pretend you said something different. > > You claimed > > “Hope I’m on the right side of the line when I say it might hurt to hear such venom from someone who I respected, but coming from you I could care less.” > > When you say the arguments might mean something coming from someone other than me, you’re making a comment about me, not my arguments. Of course my comment was personal. I did not claim otherwise. The question was whether it constituted an “attack”. Now, I have had enough of your Junior High Schoolish screeching and babbling. I come here looking for grown-up conversation, something you obviously cannot deliver. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/819 "2012-08-10T18:16:54Z")
> [@grude](#): > > This is an unsafe assumption of olympic athletes as a whole. > > [http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/\_I\_want\_to\_swim\_like\_him\_one\_day\_-164972656.html](http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_I_want_to_swim_like_him_one_day_-164972656.html) > > George Bovell for example. You mean _Caribbean_ Olympic athletes as a whole? OP and my assumptions about Caribbean athletes concern runners, not swimmers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/820 "2012-08-10T19:43:25Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I am not familar with your writing, but if our exchange is typical your strategy seems to be to focus on trivialities, > and to declare yourself the winner regardless of how effectively someone rebuts you. While at it you avoid the important issues, > which you must know you are hopelessly unequipped to engage. Er… I didn’t “declare myself the winner”. You proclaimed that the athletes in question were all “primarily of African descent”. I challenged you on that claim, you made some long rambling posts during which you argued, without any strong foundation, that my arguments were “stupid”. Eventually you wound upadmitting that you were wrong to refer to the athletes as being “primarily” of African descent and that you should have referred to then as being “partially” of African descent. Furthermore, despite your claims, the difference between “partially” and “primarily” is hardly trivial. > [@](#): > > Of course my comment was personal. I did not claim otherwise. Er…yes you did claim otherwise. From post #812. > [@](#): > > Colonial > I have not made any comments about you personally, merely your arguments. So yes, when you say “I have not made any comments about you personally, merely your arguments” you are denying that your comments were “personal”. > [@](#): > > Now, I have had enough of your Junior High Schoolish screeching and babbling. I come here looking for grown-up conversation, > something you obviously cannot deliver. Goodbye. If you’re going to accuse me of “junior high school schreechings and babblings” I’d recommend not making personal attacks because that certainly undercuts your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414/821 "2012-08-11T00:39:01Z")
Edit - sorry, making an observation that has already been made re BBC item about slaves/sprinters [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/critique-this-why-blacks-run-faster/627414.md?page=42)