# Crop circle conundrum.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 23, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951 "2008-06-23T18:15:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/1 "2008-06-23T18:15:08Z")
Are there any videos available of a complex “crop circle” being created in the space of one night? Also, I’m sure I read once, that one appeared within a security patrolled military area! Does anyone know anything about that?
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### Author:  [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/2 "2008-06-23T20:23:06Z")
[Here’s the wikipedia article.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle) It goes into detail on how they are made. [Here’s a Youtube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niH9ClOse3M) with people explaining and demonstrating the process.
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### Author:  [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/3 "2008-06-23T20:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov]
Are there any videos available of a complex “crop circle” being created in the space of one night?
[/QUOTE]
What’s the documentation that a crop circle was completed in one night beyond the say so of the landowner?
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/4 "2008-06-23T21:06:08Z")
[QUOTE=1010011010]
What’s the documentation that a crop circle was completed in one night beyond the say so of the landowner?
[/QUOTE]
I’m as much in the dark as you are, my binary friend. Do you think some of the more elaborate ones could be done overnight though?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/5 "2008-06-23T21:11:50Z")
The planning of a crop circle might take a while, but you can take as long as you need for that. The actual stomping, though? You figure out how many man-hours it’ll take, you divide that by the number of hours available, and then you get that many accomplices. What’s the difficult part?
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/6 "2008-06-23T21:46:31Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos]
The planning of a crop circle might take a while, but you can take as long as you need for that. The actual stomping, though? You figure out how many man-hours it’ll take, you divide that by the number of hours available, and then you get that many accomplices. What’s the difficult part?
[/QUOTE]
I can have no objection to that kind of reasoning, Chronos.
Still, I have also heard that animals( two porcupines, apparently, in Canada.) have actually been found flattened within these circles too. Are the circle-makers that callous, or just determined to do a good job?
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### Author:  [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/7 "2008-06-23T22:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov]
I’m as much in the dark as you are, my binary friend. Do you think some of the more elaborate ones could be done overnight though?
[/QUOTE]
They _could_ as **Chronos** points out.
Once you admit the possibility of it being a hoax, I see no reason not to suspect the landowner is complicit in the fraud. Crop circles can bring in a bit of tourist money, after all.
So what’s the basis for the “overnight” time limit? Who reports that everything was completely normal the day before?
For that matter, you could stake out the entire pattern in the field, taking as long as you please, and then do all the mashing in one night.
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### Author:  [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/8 "2008-06-23T22:59:23Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov]
I can have no objection to that kind of reasoning, Chronos.
Still, I have also heard that animals( two porcupines, apparently, in Canada.) have actually been found flattened within these circles too. Are the circle-makers that callous, or just determined to do a good job?
[/QUOTE]
If that is in fact true, remember that they are stomping by the light of the moon, and a small animal probably wouldn’t been seen. If it didn’t get out of the way it could be squished.
And re the military area. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a security patrolled military area in which they grew crops. Do you know where it was?
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/9 "2008-06-23T23:24:03Z")
[QUOTE=1010011010]
What’s the documentation that a crop circle was completed in one night beyond the say so of the landowner?
[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure the [Circlemakers](http://www.circlemakers.org/) group made a circle overnight in a field that was under video surveillance. I can’t find the exact story I’m after on their site but there is a wealth of info about circles there. Some of the designs are really quite stunning.
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/10 "2008-06-23T23:25:20Z")
[QUOTE=yoyodyne]
If that is in fact true, remember that they are stomping by the light of the moon, and a small animal probably wouldn’t been seen. If it didn’t get out of the way it could be squished.
And re the military area. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a security patrolled military area in which they grew crops. Do you know where it was?
[/QUOTE]
I’m sure you’d notice though, even if it was only the size of a hedgehog?
I vaguely recall it being in England, but I may have just been reading ‘anecdotal evidence’.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/11 "2008-06-23T23:30:27Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov]
Also, I’m sure I read once, that one appeared within a security patrolled military area! Does anyone know anything about that?
[/QUOTE]
It’s quite possible to find and read examples of bullshit on almost any subject you like. I was going to say ‘Welcome to the Internet’, but the phenomenon wasn’t invented here.
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/12 "2008-06-23T23:44:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
It’s quite possible to find and read examples of bullshit on almost any subject you like. I was going to say ‘Welcome to the Internet’, but the phenomenon wasn’t invented here.
[/QUOTE]
I accept there is a great deal of BS on t’interweb, but sorting the wheat from the chaff is part of the fun. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/13 "2008-06-23T23:46:47Z")
Crop circles again? Lame. Real wacko conspiracy theories start and end with [\*\*Nature’s Harmonic Simultaneous Rotating 4 Corner 24 Hour Days in 1 Earth Rotation.](http://timecube.com/)\*\*
Stranger
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/14 "2008-06-23T23:55:54Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
Crop circles again? Lame. Real wacko conspiracy theories start and end with [\*\*Nature’s Harmonic Simultaneous Rotating 4 Corner 24 Hour Days in 1 Earth Rotation.](http://timecube.com/)\*\*
Stranger
[/QUOTE]
I remember looking on there once. It nearly gave me as bad a headache as
**[this](http://forbiddentruth.8k.com/)** site.
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/15 "2008-09-27T00:30:41Z")
I came across [this](http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/05/crop-circles-quest-for-truth/) video during my online browsing, and I was wondering if anyone would like to comment on the object seen at 1hr 16 mins +, or better still, watch the entire video and address some of the more scientific aspects of the documentary. One thought that has occured to me is, why would the human creators of the more elaborate circles and patterns be so secretive about their work? As far as I am aware, none of the makers of the more spectacular ones have ever come forward, and this seems contrary to human nature. Thoughts, anyone?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/16 "2008-09-27T00:37:59Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#):
>
> a small animal probably wouldn’t been seen. If it didn’t get out of the way it could be squished.
Porcupines can be quite hefty. OTOH, it’s not too hard to scrape up and transplant pre-flattened porcupines, such as are found along our nation’s highways.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/17 "2008-09-27T08:27:35Z")
ivan astikov writes:
\> As far as I am aware, none of the makers of the more spectacular ones have
\> ever come forward, and this seems contrary to human nature.
Of course many of the makers of the crop circles have revealed themselves. Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, who claim to have invented the crop circle phenomenon, admitted that they did it in 1991:
> **[Crop circle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle)**
>
> A crop circle, crop formation, or corn circle is a pattern created by flattening a crop, usually a cereal. The term was first coined in the early 1980s by Colin Andrews. Crop circles have been described as all falling "within the range of the sort of thing done in hoaxes" by Taner Edis, professor of physics at Truman State University. Although obscure natural causes or alien origins of crop circles are suggested by fringe theorists, there is no scientific evidence for such explanation The numb...
As far as I know, there’s nothing to explain about crop circles. There are lots of groups that admit that they were making crop circles. There are no cases of crop circles mysteriously appearing in locations where they couldn’t have been created by people. There’s no absolute proof, of course, that one of the crop circles which no one has admitted to making wasn’t made by aliens or some weird supernatural method or whatever, just as there’s no absolute proof that some UFO wasn’t a vehicle piloted by aliens, but there’s no real evidence that it has happened.
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/18 "2008-09-27T09:06:46Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> ivan astikov writes:
>
> \> As far as I am aware, none of the makers of the more spectacular ones have
> \> ever come forward, and this seems contrary to human nature.
>
> Of course many of the makers of the crop circles have revealed themselves. Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, who claim to have invented the crop circle phenomenon, admitted that they did it in 1991:
>
> [Crop circle - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle)
[This](http://www.allthatis.co.uk/crop/doug-dave.jpg) apparently is one of Doug and Dave’s attempts, and they certainly had nothing to do with [this one.](http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/080808/080808.html)
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> As far as I know, there’s nothing to explain about crop circles. There are lots of groups that admit that they were making crop circles. There are no cases of crop circles mysteriously appearing in locations where they couldn’t have been created by people. There’s no absolute proof, of course, that one of the crop circles which no one has admitted to making wasn’t made by aliens or some weird supernatural method or whatever, just as there’s no absolute proof that some UFO wasn’t a vehicle piloted by aliens, but there’s no real evidence that it has happened.
[my underline]
And how much of your time have you given to this seemingly ridiculous topic? Did you watch the documentary I linked to, for example?
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/19 "2008-09-27T09:14:04Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> Porcupines can be quite hefty. OTOH, it’s not too hard to scrape up and transplant pre-flattened porcupines, such as are found along our nation’s highways.
Good point, but I’m positive it would be easy to establish if that was the case.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/20 "2008-09-27T09:34:45Z")
I read a lot about crop circles back during the period when they were most discussed, from the mid-1980’s to the early 1990’s. I subscribed to a magazine (called, I believe, _Cerealogy_) about crop circles for several years. I lived in England from 1987 to 1990. I just watched a little of the documentary you linked to, and it appears that there’s nothing new there. Anybody can produce a documentary with so-called researchers sitting around in a pub creating theories. Give us any research by reputable scientists showing that there’s anything mysterious to explain in crop circles.
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