# Crop circle conundrum. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951 "2008-06-23T18:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/41 "2008-09-27T19:14:50Z")
As you probably realise, trying to Google sensible information on crop circles is nigh on impossibe, unless you know exactly where to look. The wikipedia site obviously isn’t authorative enough, so can someone point me towards a reliable site, which thoroughly debunks the supposed phenomenon? Also, can someone give me an explanation for the object seen in the video at 1hr 16 mins plus, which correlates with another phenomenon that I’m sure science has sewn-up completely, namely orbs and ball lightning, and we can put this topic to bed. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/42 "2008-09-27T19:16:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I am currently holding in my hands a most peculiar object. It’s made of two layers of something which almost exactly resembles mylarized plastic, formed into a sort of bag shape. It’s covered with strange markings, which, with a little imagination, seem to resemble the words “Doritos Hot Wings and Blue Cheese”. Clearly, we must ask ourselves how the aliens who obviously made this object learned how to make mylar, and when they learned to make marks resembling English words. > > Yes, yes, I know that it’s been documented that humans have made a few objects like this, but surely, they can’t all be hoaxes, can they? Out of all of the millions of so-called “crop bags” out there, some of them must be genuine, right? It’s just inconceivable that they could _all_ be human-made hoaxes. Don’t take the piss, you’re not very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/43 "2008-09-27T19:20:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > As you probably realise, trying to Google sensible information on crop circles is nigh on impossibe, unless you know exactly where to look. The wikipedia site obviously isn’t authorative enough, so can someone point me towards a reliable site, which thoroughly debunks the supposed phenomenon? Also, can someone give me an explanation for the object seen in the video at 1hr 16 mins plus, which correlates with another phenomenon that I’m sure science has sewn-up completely, namely orbs and ball lightning, and we can put this topic to bed. What is your motivation here, honestly? Most of us who are genuinely interested in the truth found the things you are looking for ourselves. You seem more interested in being spoonfed the facts one at a time so you can more easily “disprove” them. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/44 "2008-09-27T19:31:25Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > What is your motivation here, honestly? Most of us who are genuinely interested in the truth found the things you are looking for ourselves. You seem more interested in being spoonfed the facts one at a time so you can more easily “disprove” them. What makes you think I’ve got any motivation other than hearing the opinions of supposedly intelligent people? This site has a reputation for dealing with subjects fairly and open-mindedly, so why wouldn’t I raise my queries here? I searched on here for relevant threads and only found this one [http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461945&highlight=crop+circle](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461945&highlight=crop+circle) , which didn’t exactly take the topic very seriously. Here’s what revived my interest in this thread; > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I came across [this](http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/05/crop-circles-quest-for-truth/) video during my online browsing, and I was wondering if anyone would like to comment on the object seen at 1hr 16 mins +, or better still, watch the entire video and address some of the more scientific aspects of the documentary. If you’re not interested in addressing any of that, I suggest you leave the thread, rather than hang around insinuating ulterior motives in my intent. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/45 "2008-09-27T20:49:25Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Porcupines can be quite hefty. OTOH, it’s not too hard to scrape up and transplant pre-flattened porcupines, such as are found along our nation’s highways. _I_ heard somewhere from somebody they were two newborn North American porcupines (which weigh about a pound) that were abandoned by their mother when the alien board-stompers approached. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/46 "2008-09-27T20:56:26Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What makes you think I’ve got any motivation other than hearing the opinions of supposedly intelligent people? Your history of ignoring facts and opinions of “supposedly intelligent” people makes me think that. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I came across [this](http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/05/crop-circles-quest-for-truth/) video during my online browsing, and I was wondering if anyone would like to comment on the object seen at 1hr 16 mins It doesn’t look like much of anything to me. A mylar bag floating around, maybe. Someone on the film says it’s a bird. Half the time you can’t see anything, sometimes you see a little glint. Why didn’t they ask the farmer who supposedly stopped his tractor to look at it? He got a closer look than anyone else and they apparently didn’t even interview him, or they did and didn’t release it because what he said didn’t match their conclusions. What do you think it is? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/47 "2008-09-27T21:21:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Your history of ignoring facts and opinions of “supposedly intelligent” people makes me think that. Oh, I have a history, do I? Do you have a history of psychically establishing whether or not a poster has ignored facts or opinions? How do you know what I have ignored on here? > [@Cisco](#): > > It doesn’t look like much of anything to me. A mylar bag floating around, maybe. Someone on the film says it’s a bird. Half the time you can’t see anything, sometimes you see a little glint. Why didn’t they ask the farmer who supposedly stopped his tractor to look at it? He got a closer look than anyone else and they apparently didn’t even interview him, or they did and didn’t release it because what he said didn’t match their conclusions. What do you think it is? I’ve no idea. It didn’t look like something being blown around by the wind though. And I don’t know of any birds that ‘glint’. Do you? Perhaps **Colibri** might take a look to see if it resembles a bird to him? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/48 "2008-09-27T21:26:48Z")
The TinFoilHats will never capitulate. In one of the first documentaries of the guys who did this, the pair was challenged on camera to reproduce a certain pattern in a single night by a ‘scientist’ who claimed it couldn’t be done. The pair easily met all the criteria. The skeptics response? Aliens were guiding them. The problem with these things is that no one wants to step back away from the maze far enough to see the bigger picture. Serious question, **Ivan** : Do you honestly believe another civilization would develop the technology to travel to another star system then after arriving just fuck around with their food crops? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/49 "2008-09-27T22:08:22Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Oh, I have a history, do I? Do you have a history of psychically establishing whether or not a poster has ignored facts or opinions? How do you know what I have ignored on here? Given your propensity for believing the less likely of two possibilities, you’ll probably think I’m psychic no matter what I say, but in all fairness I’ll go ahead and put it out there. A person who thinks teh eebil gubermint blew up dem dere buildings on n9ne eleben, in the face of all logic, reason, and evidence, establishes a history of ignoring facts and opinions of intelligent people. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=480542) would be a good place to start if one wanted to whittle away their day looking for examples. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/50 "2008-09-28T02:14:32Z")
[Moderating] **Cisco** and **ivan** , let’s try and refrain from making this as personal as you have been. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/51 "2008-09-28T02:24:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > **Cisco** and **ivan** , let’s try and refrain from making this as personal as you have been. > Colibri > General Questions Moderator I’d be more than happy for Cisco to stick to the topic and quit trying to second guess my intentions. Did you fancy having a look at the object that might be a bird or a helium balloon, while you are in the vicinity? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/52 "2008-09-28T03:27:34Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Did you fancy having a look at the object that might be a bird or a helium balloon, while you are in the vicinity? Did you say it was 1 hr 16 minutes in? Sorry, that will take forever to load on my connection. What would be the point, anyway? If might be either a bird or a helium balloon, then it evidently can’t be securely identified. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/53 "2008-09-28T11:11:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Did you say it was 1 hr 16 minutes in? Sorry, that will take forever to load on my connection. What would be the point, anyway? If might be either a bird or a helium balloon, then it evidently can’t be securely identified. Sorry to hear about your connection problems. That must suck, eh? Anyway, all I was hoping for was that you’d clarify it wasn’t a bird. And the only point would be to discount any suggestion that it might have been a bird. So, no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/54 "2008-09-28T12:35:56Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Oh, I have a history, do I? Do you have a history of psychically establishing whether or not a poster has ignored facts or opinions? How do you know what I have ignored on here? > > I’ve no idea. It didn’t look like something being blown around by the wind though. And I don’t know of any birds that ‘glint’. Do you? Perhaps **Colibri** might take a look to see if it resembles a bird to him? A bird flapping its wings might very well seem to ‘glint’ like that. Why didn’t they ask tha farmer on the tractor who supposedly saw it? The guy in the documentary says he spoke to him, but he never tells us what the farmer actually said that he saw. Inconvenient, probably. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/55 "2008-09-28T12:51:35Z")
> [@jimigorilla](#): > > A bird flapping its wings might very well seem to ‘glint’ like that. Why didn’t they ask tha farmer on the tractor who supposedly saw it? The guy in the documentary says he spoke to him, but he never tells us what the farmer actually said that he saw. Inconvenient, probably. Did it look like something “flapping it’s wings” to you? Show me any footage of a bird that looks like that object. ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/56 "2008-09-28T13:18:38Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Did it look like something “flapping it’s wings” to you? Show me any footage of a bird that looks like that object. With grainy, low quality footage like that anything can look like anything. It definitely looked like a bird to me. Of course you may believe what you like. The question remains why we didn’t hear from the guy was closest to it and got the best view. People who believe in the magical properties of crop circles will never be convinced otherwise, anyway, because their faith is stronger than their critical faculties. Occam’s razor is totally wasted on them. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/57 "2008-09-28T13:35:02Z")
I wouldn’t even call that “glinting,” which implies (to me) a metallic or crystalline glow. That looks like a bird with a lighter color than the dirt, flying along. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951/58 "2008-09-28T14:36:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I came across [this](http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/05/crop-circles-quest-for-truth/) video during my online browsing, and I was wondering if anyone would like to comment on the object seen at 1hr 16 mins +, or better still, watch the entire video and address some of the more scientific aspects of the documentary. I’ll be glad to comment. First, this is not a scientific documentary, even though some “scientists” are supposedly included. No one is doing science. This is _entertainment._ Instead of science, this film was made with these pre-assumed concepts:[ul][li]It is better to believe something is mysterious or unexplained than know the real reason behind it.[_]It is more fun to propose an unlikely explanation for something rather than a simple, likely one (reverse Occam’s Razor)[_]Making absurd connections between paranormal phenomena and mundane actions is more entertaining than using logic[_]If you don’t understand something, blame it on aliens[_]If you can’t readily explain something with the facts at hand, propose a paranormal or extraterrestrial cause rather than saying, “I don’t know, because the available information is insufficient”[\*]Geometric constructs are impossible for simple humans to create, but aliens understand them and are using them to communicate instead of easier methods (like landing on the White House lawn)[/ul][/li] As to the specific images at about 1 hr 16 mins, it is probably a white bird, or maybe a plastic bag being blown about. The photographer’s equipment was just good enough to capture a distant object, but not good enough to resolve it beyond a few pixels. This is a common technique among those who want to believe – example, [Stanton Friedman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_friedman), [Richard Hoagland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hoagland) and others. I watched an entire video once where the claim was made that there are mile-high, [non-natural towers on the moon,](http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2004/067/moon-towers.htm) including [glass domes](http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_762.shtml) and [giant bridges.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg9T9AwUi0s) Sure enough, when you squint and use your imagination – and even if you assume that this is not a deliberate hoax – some images do look like they are what was claimed. But, in all cases, the resolution was _just beyond_ what would be needed to settle the issue. If the claim was a mile-high tower, the best you could resolve was 2 miles; if a 100-ft dome, only 200 ft. Or, worse yet, ignorant of how photocompression works, they will spot “anomolies” created by the computer during compression and create fanciful objects where there are none. _Unbound by logic,_ the photo interpreter is taking the images beyond their capabilties. Nowhere is this more evident than the [face on Mars.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_on_Mars#Face_on_Mars) On one image, it sure looks like one, but from other angles, not so much. But the other angles don’t prove what some people want to believe, so they are discarded or discounted. So _if you want to believe_, this video is your meat & potatoes, since the mundane explanations are entirely omitted, ignored or downplayed. Is it too disappointing if you are shown that the “mysterious” can be made by ordinary, non-supernatural means? Sorry if reality conflicts with your fantasies. Which world do you want to be a part of? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crop-circle-conundrum/453951.md?page=2)