# Cross with the Cross at Ground Zero? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506 "2003-09-09T13:01:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/41 "2003-09-12T02:59:06Z")
Of course, no Jews will be offended, because none of them died in the WTC. They all called in sick that morning, since they were warned beforehand. Kidding! [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm) ---
**Author:** ![d12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71c47a/32.png) [@d12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d12)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/42 "2003-09-12T04:07:21Z")
I see no problem at all. If atheists were so concerned about crosses, why do we have the red cross? Christians (or at least myself) don’t view the cross as a religious symbol but rather an item that demonstrates something someone went through. (sorry, it’s hard to describe) Jesus was a jew, the two convicts he was crucified weren’t catholic either. Many people believe Jesus exsisted and just the fact he was punished for a petty crime (though it was considered quite bad then) and the story of his love for everyone makes it a powerful message. I dont know if any of that made sense (I’m quite sick right now and on some meds, but I tried to argue.) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/43 "2003-09-12T04:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > If atheists were so concerned about crosses, why do we have the red cross? Um, yeah. At any rate, this certainly doesn’t bother me since I am sort of looking at it more like a glorified headstone than something more fiendish like a plot to convert people or found (or otherwise imply an implicit) state religion. Wonder if any discordians died there… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/44 "2003-09-12T13:27:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*Do atheists have special symbols? \*\* Heh. “Where’s the atheist component of this memorial?” “Right over there” (points to empty corner). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/45 "2003-09-14T05:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by d12 \* > **Many people believe Jesus exsisted and just the fact he was punished for a petty crime (though it was considered quite bad then)** Of course, even if Jesus did exist and did get crucified, we still don’t know that his crime was the “petty” one described in the Gospels. For all we know, he could’ve been a David Koresh-like cult leader out to overthrow the Roman-appointed Jewish king or cause a bunch of big riots or lead a revolt or something. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/46 "2003-09-14T05:32:34Z")
I don;t think it’s inappropriate: it’s just one more symbol that means a lot to people, and the memorial isn’t, as far as I know, any kind of state endorsement of anything. It’s a memorial site, and in that sense, a museum. There are really no endorsement problems with things like state funded museums having exhibits about religion or religious icons and so forth. The only thing that bothers me is that some people were amazed that out of a building made of grid like girders, finding a cross shape in the debris was a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![SunTzu2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@SunTzu2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunTzu2U)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/47 "2003-09-14T06:05:09Z")
Tracer, I think you should study more on the subject of Jesus before you start hypothesizing on his deeds. d12 what crime exactly are you refering to? I’d like to see your cite on this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506/48 "2003-09-14T07:00:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SunTzu2U \* > \*\*Tracer, I think you should study more on the subject of Jesus before you start hypothesizing on his deeds. d12 what crime exactly are you refering to? I’d like to see your cite on this. \*\* According to the gospels he was convicted of blasphemy by the Sanhedrin, which _is_ a fairly petty crime. At to **Tracer’s** comment, he is correct. The utterances which are called “blasphemous” by Matthew’s Sanhedrin were not, in fact blasphemous under Jewish law. It is, therefore, quite unlikely that the gospel accounts reflect any authentic motivation for the execution of Jesus as it pertains to the Jews (there are some other serious problems with the Sanhedrin account as well). Jesus was executed by the Romans because he was perceived, for whatever reason, as being a threat to _them_. They wouldn’t have given a shit about Jewish religious squabbles and Jesus had done nothing that the Jews would have considered criminal anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cross-with-the-cross-at-ground-zero/200506.md?page=2)