# Crossdressers Who Wants Em'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2001, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155 "2001-02-12T15:24:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/41 "2001-02-14T00:37:25Z")
Oh, and just for **Bill** ’s benefit: _The majority of crossdressers do not do so to attract others, they do so simply because it is what feels natural to them._ Note my post above used the word “some” quite frequently, so do not apply that to _all_ CD/TV/TGs. And furthermore, so what? It oughtn’t matter in the long run. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/42 "2001-02-14T00:43:24Z")
Hell, I don’t dress the way I do to attract others! I dress to make myself comfortable and feel attractive for ME. Anyone who doesn’t like it, well, too bad. This is me. Love me!!! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/43 "2001-02-14T01:02:34Z")
You know, on rereading this thread, it struck me that a lot of us are being a bit harsh on **Bill**. Did you ever have a teacher who said something to the effect that “The only stupid question is the one you don’t ask” – usually after a class has laughed at someone’s question? Bill is asking the questions – the sorts of things he’d never have asked in the past or over on the LBMB. Okay, he’s made an erroneous assumption here, and in a couple of other places, that makes his question less than on target. So? You haven’t? I learn **the most** when I ask something quite dumb, and find out what underlying assumptions I was making are wrong. And **Bill** has not flamed anyone, just given back the same ribbing he was getting. It’s a welcome sight, IMO. Anybody remember the motto of this board as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/44 "2001-02-14T01:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > > **Sorry, gonna need a cite for this.** And now I come to the rescue of **Wildest Bill**. God help us all… The person he refers to is named Caroline Cossey (aka Tula), an actress (for lack of a better description) and model who had a role as in the Bond film _For Your Eyes Only_. Here is a link to a slew of pictures of her as a model and even as a teenager (when she was actually a “he” named Barry Cossey): [http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/9200/tula.htm](http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/9200/tula.htm) Now, for the record, I wouldn’t term Tula as a “Bond Girl,” per se, as that offers up connotations of a woman with a substantial role as a protagonist or ally. From the [alt.fan.james-bond FAQ](http://www.landfield.com/faqs/james-bond/FAQ/): > [@](#): > > Q: Is it true that “The” Bond girl in FYEO used to be a man? > A: No. One of the bikini-clad women hanging out at Gonzales’ pool is a British actress named “Tula,” who later grabbed headlines by revealing she had started life as a man. Although the world press played up the Bond angle (“Even 007 can’t tell the difference!”), Tula’s role in the film was actually very minor. The actual “Bond girl” of the film is Carole Bouquet, today a respected actress in her native France, where historically it is easier to tell the gals from the guys. I heard about her on the Howard Stern show, and even Howard said he would “do her,” even though her equipment was (according to Howard) “nothing but a surgical wound.” For the record, I think she’s a hottie… * * * Yer pal, [Satan](http://www.members.tripod.com/jmspoofe/sdmb/satan.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/45 "2001-02-14T07:30:23Z")
We only ask for evidence. Fair enough. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/46 "2001-02-14T12:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* > And **Bill** has not flamed anyone, just given back the same ribbing he was getting. > \*\* To me, the problem is that (as is often the case) I feel like WB has asked a question, only to ignore the answers people give. People have been very patient in pointing out where WB’s flawed assumptions are, they’ve described the difference between gay, TV, and TS, I’ve suggested some books for him if he wants to learn in more detail, other people have described their own experiences and reasons for being attracted to TV’s- and WB ends up asking his original question again, with all his erroneous assumptions unchanged. Sure, we all do stupid things sometimes, but I think most of the people here might be having unpleasant flashbacks to WB’s “If evolution is right, then Christianity is wrong” argumentam ad assertam ad infinitum. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/47 "2001-02-14T14:22:52Z")
" . . . even Howard said he would “do her,” even though her equipment was (according to Howard) “nothing but a surgical wound.”" —Howard Stern’s mouth is nothing but a surgical wound. Hasn’t that damn thing healed shut YET? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/48 "2001-02-14T16:14:58Z")
\*\*Wildest Bill wrote: If some guy dresses up so good like a woman that you can’t tell it is even a guy, then gay guys are not going to try to hook up with them. On the otherhand, if a straight guy comes up to them he is going to think the guy is a chick and is going to be very surprised to say the least to discover that the person is a guy. See what I mean? Kinda of deceptive wouldn’t you say?\*\* **WB** , whos says they’re trying to attract anyone, at least in the sexual sense? Biill, there’s an old expression, clothes make the man. In this case, it’s literally true. People who cross-dress are simply trying to project a particular image about themselves, it’s the ultimate form of acting for literally, _all the world’s a stage_, to quote the Bard. For better or for worse in our society, we are often judged by the appearance we project and that is most often done thru our clothing. If you want to project the image of being a CEO of a major corporation, you wear the appropriate clothing; a 3-piece suit of dark color, a tie and white shirt. Your hair will be short and neatly combed or styled. The most facial hair you might wear is a moustache. You’d also be carrying a briefcase. Now say you want to project the image of a biker type, a Hell’s Angel. You wear bluejeans and a T-shirt. You wear big, black leather boots. Your hair is either long or cut VERY short, maybe even a shaved head. You sport a full beard. Your hands are spotted with grease or oil. You can take the same person and dress him in two different ways and project two VERY different images. Cross-dressers take this to the next level, they dress so as to apper as a person of their biological sex. And Bill, if you don’t learn to stop posting in your “stream of consciousness” style, I’m going to get dressed up as a nun, in full habit and wimple, ride my motorbike to where ever you are and start beating you across the knuckles with a yardstick, doing my best Sister Mary Elephant routine (for all you Cheech & Chong fans out there!) ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/49 "2001-02-14T17:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*We only ask for evidence. Fair enough. > > Esprix \*\* Well, she was in an issue of Playboy several years back, so how could you have… Oh yeah. My bad 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/50 "2001-02-14T18:45:54Z")
Originally posted by Freyr > [@](#): > > **WB** , whos says they’re trying to attract anyone, at least in the sexual sense? Ok I see what ya’ll saying. If they are doing it to get in touch with their inner self and all, I understand. > [@](#): > > And Bill, if you don’t learn to stop posting in your “stream of consciousness” style, I’m sorry but this went over my head. What are you talking about here? > [@](#): > > I’m going to get dressed up as a nun, in full habit and wimple, ride my motorbike to where ever you are and start beating you across the knuckles with a yardstick, doing my best Sister Mary Elephant routine (for all you Cheech & Chong fans out there!) I could be wrong but I thought the nun that wacked people with a yardstick was in the “Blues Brothers”. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/51 "2001-02-14T20:05:11Z")
**Wildest Bill quoted:** \*Freyr said: And Bill, if you don’t learn to stop posting in your “stream of consciousness” style,\* \*\*whereupon WB asked: I’m sorry but this went over my head. What are you talking about here? \*\* _sigh_ Look at these sentences you posted: \*\*I guess the whole deal was to the post was this. _AND_ Also just fyi there no way to tell how fast someone types on a message board so that insult kinda laid sorta flat maybe saying I will use small words would have been better.\*\* Bill, it took me 5 mins, per sentence, to figure out what you were talking about. Please learn to use the **PREVIEW KEY** key. When you let the words flow directly from your brain to the keys, it comes out as above. That’s the “stream of consciousness” posting style I’m talking about. Regarding nuns; the nun in the Blues Brother movie (the first one) was referred to as “The Penguin.” I’m talking about Sister Mary Elephant, a character referred to in the early Cheech & Chong albums. Sorry, I don’t have a better cite than that. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/52 "2001-02-14T20:28:49Z")
I remember Sister Mary Elephant. “Class… CLASS… _ **CLASS!!!** _ Thank you…” And, the ever-popular, “Earache my eye!” Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/53 "2001-02-14T21:24:26Z")
Originally posted by Freyr > [@](#): > > Bill, it took me 5 mins, per sentence, to figure out what you were talking about. Please learn to use the **PREVIEW KEY** key. When you let the words flow directly from your brain to the keys, it comes out as above. That’s the “stream of consciousness” posting style I’m talking about. Ahhh now I gotcha. Thanks. Yea, I will use the preview button more. > [@](#): > > Regarding nuns; the nun in the Blues Brother movie (the first one) was referred to as “The Penguin.” I’m talking about Sister Mary Elephant, a character referred to in the early Cheech & Chong albums. Sorry, I don’t have a better cite than that. You’re right the nun in the Blue Brother’s movie was referred to as “The Penguin”. I’ve only heard a couple of Cheech and Chong albums so that is why I probably never heard of Sister Mary Elephant. Esprix, “Earache My Eye” What an appropriate song for this thread huh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/54 "2001-02-15T04:19:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\* > Ahhh now I gotcha. Thanks. Yea, I will use the preview button more._\* We only had to ask you how many times? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/55 "2001-02-15T15:56:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Freyr said: > And Bill, if you don’t learn to stop posting in your “stream of consciousness” style, > > ``` > AND > > ``` > > Wildest Bill said: > Also just fyi there no way to tell how fast someone types on a message board so that insult kinda laid sorta flat maybe saying I will use small words would have been better. Aha and eureka! **Freyr** , thank you for the insight into WB’s posting style: he’s a latter-day Joycean posing as a Texas rube. His apparent lack of facility with the mechanics of English grammar and spelling are really the sophisticated in-joke references to Lacan’s deconstructionist view of the inherent lack of meaning in text and reference. Like Joyce, **WB** has been writing stream of consciousness prose with fractured syntax to show the workings of the mind from multiple perspectives at once, like a Braque painting transmuted into words. **WB** is our Molly Bloom! > [@](#): > > and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/56 "2001-02-15T16:57:59Z")
Originally posted by goboy > [@](#): > > Aha and eureka! **Freyr** , thank you for the insight into WB’s posting style: he’s a latter-day Joycean posing as a Texas rube. His apparent lack of facility with the mechanics of English grammar and spelling are really the sophisticated in-joke references to Lacan’s deconstructionist view of the inherent lack of meaning in text and reference. Like Joyce, **WB** has been writing stream of consciousness prose with fractured syntax to show the workings of the mind from multiple perspectives at once, like a Braque painting transmuted into words. **WB** is our Molly Bloom! Man, all that stuff makes me sound pretty intelligent…I think. > [@](#): > > and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes. Isn’t this what the English teacher read in the movie “Back to School”. See I’m cultured. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155/57 "2001-02-15T18:28:17Z")
Well Bill now I’m interested. What is it you’ve learned about crossdressers? You do realize that your best buddy could be one and you’d never know it don’t you? Needs2know [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossdressers-who-wants-em/54155.md?page=2)