# Crossing Guards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780 "2009-09-12T02:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/1 "2009-09-12T02:21:00Z")
School has just started, and the crossing guards have already started driving me crazy. One has decided that no one shall make a right turn at her corner. Another has decided that the stop sign on her corner isn’t good enough. She routinely stops traffic on the street without the stop sign and waves the cross-traffic through their stop sign. When no one is crossing. Some of them stop traffic on both streets so that the kids can cross diagonally- great thing to teach them.They all seem to stop traffic for adults to cross, and seem to have decided that no child should ever have to stop walking. The crossing guard stops traffic for Child A to cross- fine. As Child A finishes crossing, Child B is now 10 feet from the corner. We have to wait for child B to cross, but of course, there is now a third child near the corner. This sometimes goes on for a few minutes.There were crossing guards when I was a kid, too. They crossed kids in groups and sometimes (OMG) a kid had to actually stop walking and let the traffic pass. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/2 "2009-09-12T02:27:35Z")
What a terrible goddamn Pit thread this is. ---
**Author:** ![Iridescent\_Orb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@Iridescent\_Orb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridescent_Orb)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/3 "2009-09-12T08:37:47Z")
Yet another example of the increasing child-centricity of society. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/4 "2009-09-12T09:40:31Z")
These are people who usually have retired from low status jobs (or they wouldn’t have to be supplementing their income in old age), or if not retired, are complete failures in life because who the hell is a crossing guard when they are of working age! So now they are on a power trip. I hate morons on power trips. Isn’t there some way you could get in touch with the school district and get them reprimanded? ---
**Author:** ![Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Runs_With_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/5 "2009-09-12T15:31:06Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > These are people who usually have retired from low status jobs (or they wouldn’t have to be supplementing their income in old age), or if not retired, are complete failures in life because who the hell is a crossing guard when they are of working age! So now they are on a power trip. I hate morons on power trips. Isn’t there some way you could get in touch with the school district and get them reprimanded? Well, I have two college degrees and I’m a crossing guard 🙂 It’s just one of the duties teachers have to perform. I think some districts use their “duty ladies” as the kids call them…support staff at the school who do things like recess duty and other types of things. I’m sure there are examples like you mentioned in your post. I’m not in the Portland school district, but they use kids for crossing guards. I drive by one school on the way to work, and I just cringe as I do so. The kids really aren’t very good at it. They hesitate. They wait too long or run out too fast. Fortunately, cars go so slowly that it seems pretty safe. Wait, why is this in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/6 "2009-09-12T16:21:10Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > She routinely stops traffic on the street without the stop sign and waves the cross-traffic through their stop sign. When no one is crossing. Some of them stop traffic on both streets so that the kids can cross diagonally- great thing to teach them. Complain to the school district, but complain to your local cops as well. If she’s really doing these two things, she’a a danger. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/7 "2009-09-12T16:36:44Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > Complain to the school district, but complain to your local cops as well. If she’s really doing these two things, she’a a danger. They don’t work for the schol district- they work for the police department. Complaining hasn’t made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/8 "2009-09-12T17:15:36Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > They all seem to stop traffic for adults to cross, and seem to have decided that no child should ever have to stop walking. The crossing guard stops traffic for Child A to cross- fine. As Child A finishes crossing, Child B is now 10 feet from the corner. We have to wait for child B to cross, but of course, there is now a third child near the corner. This sometimes goes on for a few minutes. What makes this Pit thread even more idiotic is that the OP is apparently hoping that crossing guards will break the law in deference to her desire to get through intersections unimpeded by the pedestrians that legally have priority over her car. My knowledge of NY traffic laws is far from encyclopedic, but almost every state has laws which clearly give pedestrians priority over cars in an intersection except in intersections controlled by a traffic light. Even then, cars must yield to pedestrians when they cross intersections illegally (basically, you’re never permitted to risk running someone over in any circumstance if you can possibly avoid it, regardless of what the traffic light tells you to do). **MODIALIZE** put this quite well. [http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/06/nyregion/06CROS.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/06/nyregion/06CROS.html) [http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/peds-ndx.htm#top](http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/peds-ndx.htm#top) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/9 "2009-09-12T18:38:14Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Even then, cars must yield to pedestrians when they cross intersections illegally (basically, you’re never permitted to risk running someone over in any circumstance if you can possibly avoid it, regardless of what the traffic light tells you to do). In this case, though, the guard is being overly accomodating to the pedestrians. Under normal conditions, the pedestrians do sometimes wait on the curb for a break in the car traffic, as well they should. A crossing guard can ensure the safety of the pedestrians without minimal impedence of the traffic flow, if he or she is not an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/10 "2009-09-12T18:40:30Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > What makes this Pit thread even more idiotic is that the OP is apparently hoping that crossing guards will break the law in deference to her desire to get through intersections unimpeded by the pedestrians that legally have priority over her car. My knowledge of NY traffic laws is far from encyclopedic, but almost every state has laws which clearly give pedestrians priority over cars in an intersection except in intersections controlled by a traffic light. Even then, cars must yield to pedestrians when they cross intersections illegally (basically, you’re never permitted to risk running someone over in any circumstance if you can possibly avoid it, regardless of what the traffic light tells you to do). > > **MODIALIZE** put this quite well. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/06/nyregion/06CROS.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/06/nyregion/06CROS.html) > [http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/peds-ndx.htm#top](http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/peds-ndx.htm#top) No, I’m not hoping that crossing guards will break the law. Drivers in NY must yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk. I’m not talking about wanting the crossing guard to let me through while the kid is crossing a different lane. I’m talking about the crossing guard continuing to stop traffic after one child has finished crossing to wait for another child who\* has not yet arrived\* at the crosswalk, when two or three cars could have proceeded through the intersection before the child gets to the crosswalk. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/11 "2009-09-12T18:41:13Z")
Au contraire, **threemae**. A pedestrian crossing has the right of way, and vehicular traffic must yield to them. A pedestrian approaching an intersection has no special privileges that cars are required to wait on them – subject, of course, to the idea that children are known to do foolish things, and the motorist is to be on guard for them. As for the topic of the OP – crossing guards are typically peace officers (as opposed to police officers), i.e., people who can legally direct traffic, detain (but not arrest [other than as a citizen’s arrest like anyone else]), etc. They’re under obligation to _enforce the law_ as it stands, not as they would like it to be. In other words, if right on red when clear at a traffic light is legal, and there are no kids around at the moment, a crossing guard has no right to prohibit a motorist from turning right on red. They also should not impede the flow of traffic more than necessary – a child _approaching_ an intersection (on the sidewalk, of course) as the guard gets back from stopping traffic for a prior child to cross should be motioned to wait while cars which had stopped for the prior child are permitted to pass, then new traffic halted for the second child to cross. The crossing guard’s job is to regulate traffic to permit children to cross safely, not to impede it for every child’s convenience. (There’s a subtle lesson for the children in this, too: if _I_ have to wait for some cars to go, then I get my turn and _they_ have to wait, when I grow up and start driving, I know how to behave at four-way intersections, places where traffic has to merge, and other such things where highway courtesy is expected.) ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/12 "2009-09-12T19:12:50Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Au contraire, **threemae**. A pedestrian crossing has the right of way, and vehicular traffic must yield to them. A pedestrian approaching an intersection has no special privileges that cars are required to wait on them – subject, of course, to the idea that children are known to do foolish things, and the motorist is to be on guard for them. Please reread more carefully. > [@](#): > > §1151. Pedestrians’ right of way in crosswalks. > > (a) When traffic-control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk on the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, except that any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian tunnel or overpass has been provided shall yield the right of way to all vehicles. > > (b) No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impractical for the driver to yield. Clearly, the law expects vehicles to yield to pedestrians, both when they are actually _in_ the crosswalk and when they are attempting to enter and proceed through a crosswalk. As subsection b. explains, although pedestrians have a duty not to enter a crosswalk when it is impractical for a vehicle to stop, when it is practical for a vehicle to stop and yield to a pedestrian at a crosswalk, they must do so. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/13 "2009-09-12T19:32:11Z")
threemae, perhaps you should learn to read more carefully, or get an interpreter. Pedestrians approaching a crosswalk have no special privileges and your quote desn’t say anything different. If the pedestrian is ten feet away from the curb, or five, or one foot for that matter, and it is safe for the driver to preceed, the driver may do so. In fact, the pedestrian may be in the crossroad, and the driver may still proceed it it is safe – for instance, on a mult-lane road where the pedestrian has already crossed in front of the vehicle. I can’t say with any certainly how the presence of a crossing guard changes this, but then again, your cite doesn’t deal with crossing guards either, ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/14 "2009-09-12T19:42:46Z")
It’s nice to see that people are going to redirect this from a thread complaining about crossing guards doing things wrongly into something the OP didn’t say. The OP wants the crossing guards to stop directing traffic when kids are not present, to stop having the kids walk diagonal across the intersection, and to stop waiting for the next kids that haven’t arrived yet. I see the diagonal crossing as a particularly dangerous thing for a crossing guard to do as they have to stop traffic from 4 directions, watch for kids at all corners and the kids are not crossing in the designated crosswalks. This should concern the parents. A crossing guard has no business directing traffic other than to stop when the kids cross in the crosswalk. A police officer should be directing traffic if traffic control is needed. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/15 "2009-09-12T19:43:13Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Pedestrians approaching a crosswalk have no special privileges and your quote desn’t say anything different. [/QUOTE] Cite? Here’s another statement from the New York State DMV: > [@](#): > > Remember also that pedestrians legally crossing at intersections always have the right-of-way. Seems rather unambiguous to me. Also: > [@](#): > > TRAFFIC OFFICERS > > Directions given by traffic officers take precedence over signs, signals or pavement markings. If a traffic officer signals you to stop at a green light, for example, you must stop. If an officer signals you to drive through a red light or stop sign, you must do so. > > Among those authorized to direct traffic are police officers, peace officers such as on-duty auxiliary or fire police, highway work area flag persons, and school crossing guards. In addition to the right of way granted by the statutes addressing pedestrians, the kids have the right of way further granted to them by the school crossing guard. On review, this is especially pertinent to \*\* Harmonious Discord’s\*\* post which obviously contains numerous factual errors according to the driver’s handbook provided by the New York State DMV. The OP an wait and suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/16 "2009-09-12T20:06:07Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Cite? > > Here’s another statement from the New York State DMV: > > Seems rather unambiguous to me. > > Also: > > In addition to the right of way granted by the statutes addressing pedestrians, the kids have the right of way further granted to them by the school crossing guard. On review, this is especially pertinent to \*\* Harmonious Discord’s\*\* post which obviously contains numerous factual errors according to the driver’s handbook provided by the New York State DMV. The OP an wait and suck it up. Your reading comprehension sucks. I don’t plan on arguing with you, because I see the same thing Boyo Jim pointed out. Your response doesn’t even make sense to what I posted. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/17 "2009-09-12T20:08:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Remember also that pedestrians legally crossing at intersections always have the right-of-way. It is unambiguous - pedestrians crossing have the right of way. Not pedestrians who _might_ be crossing in a minute or two - that kid ten feet away could turn around the corner, or going into a store, or waiting for his friend to come out of the corner building rather than crossing the street. None of your cites say a thing about someone who is not already in the crosswalk. > [@](#): > > In addition to the right of way granted by the statutes addressing pedestrians, the kids have the right of way further granted to them by the school crossing guard. The OP an wait and suck it up. This might make sense if I were complaining about the kids. I’m not. I’m complaining about the crossing guards. I have to suck it up and wait, I do suck it up and wait and if one of them decided to stop the traffic on both streets from 8-9am, I’d have to suck it up until the precinct responded . Just because the crossing guard has the power to do it doesn’t mean it’s _right_ for her to do it. **Harmonious Discord’s** post is not contradicted by the drivers handbook- the drivers handbook says drivers must obey school crossing guards, but is completely silent about how and why they are supposed to direct traffic. Here’s a hint- they are called school crossing guards. They are not traffic enforcement agents, who do a much better job of controlling traffic ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/18 "2009-09-12T20:18:19Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > It’s nice to see that people are going to redirect this from a thread complaining about crossing guards doing things wrongly into something the OP didn’t say. I had hoped to redirect this into a thread bashing the OP for clogging up the Pit with her boring suburban laments. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-guards/509780/19 "2009-09-14T13:52:18Z")
As opposed to your tired “Waah, I don’t want to read it so don’t post it” bitching, MOIDALIZE?