# Crossing Over - the other side of credibility? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2001, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531 "2001-02-15T01:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/21 "2001-02-16T20:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*\*Needs2know \*\* > If you want to get outraged about someone exploiting someone’s grief, take a look at the funeral business. Now that’s exploitation, hell that’s highway robbery! You can argue that the funeral business is as bad or worse than John Edwards, but that doesn’t make him better. If someone robs you at knife-point, are you going to say “Well, at least it wasn’t at gun-point”? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/22 "2001-02-17T00:09:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > If you want to get outraged about someone exploiting someone’s grief, take a look at the funeral business. Now that’s exploitation, hell that’s highway robbery! > > Needs2know N2K-not ALL of the funeral business is about exploitation! My father is a funeral director, and he says the hardest thing is having to help people with their grief and it can be very stressful, such as when he has to do the funeral of a child-or when he buried his own sister. I’m not flaming you, or doubting that there are crooks out there. Just please do not make generalizations about funeral directors. My father does his best to help people cope with their grief and tries to help them find the best solutions. (After all, we DO need funeral directors-what would we do with all the bodies that pile up?) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/23 "2001-02-17T20:44:06Z")
Let’s move this baby over to the Great Debates forum, where it can recieve the attention it so richly deserves. I’m staying here in IMHO, however. The sight of blood makes me ill. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/24 "2001-02-18T02:30:09Z")
Using a carefully-picked audience, enough time, vague questions, vague answers, and careful editing, I could convince a few million people that _I_ was the greatest psychic in the world. Which I _would_ be, because they’re all frauds anyway! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/25 "2001-02-18T03:05:25Z")
> [@](#): > > (There’s something about the number 5, it was the fifth month or the fifth of a month or maybe the fifth monday on the fifth month) But he never really goes into anything… Just “I have to acknowledge the 5” It’s the ILLUMINATI! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/26 "2001-02-18T03:40:31Z")
Needs2Know said: > [@](#): > > Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? This strikes me as a rather strange attitude from somebody with your choice of name. If you really “need to know,” then _you_ should give a shit. > [@](#): > > Why does this guy bother anyone? Hmmm. Let’s see. He promotes nonsense, claims to have powers that he doesn’t have, takes money from unwitting victims of his con games, etc. Gosh. I dunno _why_ he bothers me. > [@](#): > > His predictions are no more off the wall, immoral or nauseating than some intellectually nerdy beancounter economist attempting to forcast the economy six months down the road on Hardball. Yes, actually, they are. We know that the economy exists. The “nerdy beancounter” may be wrong, but at least he’s not just making it up out of whole cloth. > [@](#): > > I watched the 20/20 (or one of those nighttime newie thing) profile on him a few months ago. FYI, it was _Dateline NBC_, and they’ve definitely done better jobs than that particular one. > [@](#): > > But they also showed him at some college where they study so called psychics and as it turns out they’ve known about him for quite awhile and he is as legit or whatever you call one of these guys as anyway. In other words out of all the folks they tested he’s right up there in the top few with having some kind of mysterious cognative ability. Sorry, no go. Just because you’re at “some college” doesn’t make your claims automatically true. Uri Geller fooled _numerous_ scientists with his tricks. Frankly, Edward isn’t even all that good. > [@](#): > > Why be outraged by him anyway? It’s silly, he isn’t selling anything that a normal person with half a brain couldn’t decide they didn’t want to buy. Yes, let’s blame the victim of every con game. > [@](#): > > I also don’t buy into that exploiting people’s grief shit. Oh, well, if _you_ don’t but into it, obviously nobody should. :rolleyes: But that is exactly what he is doing. He takes people who haven’t fully dealt with the fact that their loved ones have died, and uses them in a con game to make money for himself. If that isn’t exploitation, I don’t know what is. > [@](#): > > If you want to get outraged about someone exploiting someone’s grief, take a look at the funeral business. Now that’s exploitation, hell that’s highway robbery! Ah, I love the old “two wrongs make a right” argument… ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/27 "2001-02-18T03:53:24Z")
Incidentally, this topic came up [in a thread a few months ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42724) (I would’ve sworn it was more recent than that – but maybe I’m thinking of Sylvia Browne or one of the other con artists – checking… yup, that was a [GQ thread on Ms. Browne](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52604)). Incidentally #2, Edward’s show will be going into mass market syndication next season. Last I heard, stations in the top three markets have already signed on to promote his bullshit so they can get in on the con, too. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/28 "2001-02-18T06:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > \*\*Incidentally #2, Edward’s show will be going into mass market syndication next season. Last I heard, stations in the top three markets have already signed on to promote his bullshit so they can get in on the con, too. \*\* _Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public._ -H.L. Mencken ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/29 "2001-02-18T14:18:47Z")
Not to mention: _You can fool some of the people all of the time._ And: _There’s one born every minute._ ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/30 "2001-02-18T19:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > **Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit?** I do. I do. I do. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > \*\*Why does this guy bother anyone? His predictions are no more off the wall, immoral or nauseating than some intellectually nerdy beancounter economist attempting to forcast the economy six months down the road on Hardball. \*\* Did someone tell you that he’s making predictions? He’s not. He’s preying on people’s weaknesses for his own self-interest. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \*\*\* > Why be outraged by him anyway? It’s silly, he isn’t selling anything that a normal person with half a brain couldn’t decide they didn’t want to buy. \*\* Let me get this straight. You’re saying it’s okay for him to cheat people, because he’s only cheating stupid people, and they deserve it, right? Well, stupidity is a relative term, and there are people, compared to whom you (and I) would look pretty stupid. So you’re saying it’s okay for anyone to take advantage of those less intelligent? I hope you don’t bitch the next time you’re swindled. What you’re seeing on the program is the combined triumph of the video editor and a half-decent cold reader - made all the more effective by the time the producers make the subjects sit in a quiet room, filled with other people who want to believe. What do you think they’re going to talk about? Don’t you think some note-taking is going on in another room? Also, he doesn’t hit all that often, even with the help. You just see the times he does. No, what makes me dislike what he does, is that he presents his program as the truth. If it admitted to be fiction, I wouldn’t mind so much. It would be no more offensive than Firescape (nice one, Eve) or that trash about the French bimbo wandering the galaxy in search of her G-Spot. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/31 "2001-02-18T20:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > \*\*Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? Why does this guy bother anyone? \*\* If you don’t care about fighting ignorance, you might be at the wrong web site. Also, let me point out the button on your browser called “BACK”. When you open a thread you don’t care about, it’s kind of traditional to BACK out of it and ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/32 "2001-02-18T21:46:35Z")
Since the OP, I have watched one of these shows. On the one I saw, he was doing a one-on-one with a blonde woman, but kept missing, turns out he was getting “hits” with a member of his crew (black, male). The Dead couldn’t tell? Maybe, since this is on SciFi, this would go down better if Mike and the Bots were there to provide appropriate commentary. I still want James Randi, or someone, to infiltrate this sham and expose it. Tiny cameras to tape the whole thing, to compare with the heavily edited version we see. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/33 "2001-02-18T23:29:04Z")
People like Edward _have_ been exposed. Hell, Randi mentions in an article in the most recent _Skeptic_ magazine (which deals mostly with Edward) that they tested Sylvia Browne on live TV in 1989 and she failed miserably. Obviously, it really put a dent into her career, eh? :rolleyes: Similarly, _20/20_ did a pretty good job of nailing James Van Praagh, but it didn’t even slow him down. This is why ignorance takes so long to fight… ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/34 "2001-02-19T16:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > I also don’t buy into that exploiting people’s grief shit. If you want to get outraged about someone exploiting someone’s grief, take a look at the funeral business. Now that’s exploitation, hell that’s highway robbery! Lemme get this straight–if fake psychic mediums make me angry, then I _can’t_ be angry about the funeral homes marking up caskets 400%? By god, man, here I was thinking it was wrong for _anyone_ to take advantage of people in an emotionally vulnerable state, but what you’re saying is that I can only disagree with one segment of the population that bilks the bereaved? Whoa. Thanks for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2001, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/35 "2001-02-19T19:14:19Z")
Considering that AT LEAST the funeral business prevents dead bodies from clogging up the streets, I’d say that’s a plus. 😉 Also, N2K, not a rant, but how much do you truly know about the funeral business? ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/36 "2001-02-20T14:20:49Z")
Look you can all be outraged by this guy all you want. I find him and the “Miss Cleo” commericals entertaining. So you think he’s a preditor, perhaps he is at that. But what he is doing is not illegal. There are plenty of confidence men and grifters out there bilking little old ladies out of there life savings on a genuine scam. Hopefully they are caught and pay the price for it. And yes, you don’t have to buy what this guy is selling. Plenty of people believe in “life after death” even those not laying awake at night grieving over a loved one. Fighting ignorance my ass! Even modern science cannot say with any certainty exactly what happens to us after we die. Sure our body rots, but most people want believe there is more to us than that. And no one has yet proven there isn’t. There is obviously a market for what he’s selling. And yes, they’ve parted with their money under the assumption that he can contact dead loved ones. Once again, anyone with half a brain can decide that he’s a fraud. It isn’t like there isn’t plenty of information out there that debunks what this guys does. Just a little bit different than some guy on the grift with 5 wives in 3 different states. BTW the only real experience I have with the funeral business is helping my X mother-in-law bury her husband. What an expense! Never did get a real answer as to why they tacked on $800.00 just to store the body for two days (not sure what excuse they gave for this fee. when I asked the answer was confusing). That was in addition to the “handling” fee, embalming, etc. Of course he died at home and extra had to be paid to transport him. He was a big guy and requried an oversized coffin. In our state you have to purchase a vault, etc. etc. Just seems to me like a little widow could use that 9 Gs she has to put out to bury someone with dignity toward living the rest of their lives with a little comfort. Dropping ten grand after you’ve lost your husband is enough to make someone grieve even more. Edwards 200 or 300 dollar fee seems cheap compared to that. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2001, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/37 "2001-02-20T14:54:09Z")
N2K, this is the “Crossing Over - the other side of credibility?” thread, not “funeral directors are crooks”; you want to talk about that, open a new thread. > [@](#): > > Look you can all be outraged by this guy all you want. I find him and the “Miss Cleo” commericals entertaining. So > you think he’s a predator; perhaps he is at that. But what he is doing is not illegal. Perhaps not, but it is certainly unethical. > [@](#): > > And yes, you don’t have to buy what this guy is selling. Plenty of people believe in “life after death” even those not laying awake at night grieving over a loved one. Fighting ignorance my ass! Even modern science cannot say with any certainty exactly what happens to us after we die. Sure our body rots, but most people want believe there is more to us than that. And no one has yet proven there isn’t. People want to believe in a great many pretty things that aren’t so, and this is more emphatically true for people who are grieving the loss of a loved one. John Edward is not giving people information that he could not posibly know; he is repeating information people have already given him in response to his throwing out a few vague clues. He has more misses than hits, and at the very least, he is taking cruel advantage of grieving, gullible people. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/38 "2001-02-20T15:28:17Z")
Sorry still disagree…I continue to grieve for my beloved grandmother but I have no intention of parting with any of my hard earned money to find out if she’s hanging around while I shop at the mall. If you’re grieving that badly I suggest a therapist and a little Zoloft to get you through the first couple of years. So what he does in unethical, a lot of people do things for a living that some would consider unethical. I simply do not feel outraged by this guy for taking advantage of people. Fine if you guys do I don’t. I get a lot more pissed about the guys who work on my car and try to take advantage of the fact that I’m a woman and don’t know shit about cars. (Of course I know a little more than the average women so I don’t get burned that often.) Most people NEED their car for survival, like getting to work. These folks do not have to buy this guy’s line, it’s not a necessity. Oh and I don’t need you to keep me on topic Goboy…everyone keeps giving the “take advantage of the grieving” line…believe me there are many things to deal with after the death of a loved one that are stressful and unfair. Things that compound a family’s grief. That is my point. This guy actually seems to give some of them a little comfort. Perhaps it’s false comfort but if it’s makes them feel better then that’s what they are after in the first place. Needs2know Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/39 "2001-02-20T18:35:33Z")
I would love to see a taping of this show. I have watched Crossing Over several times. JE does not do cold readings. He does hot readings or live readings. There is a difference. Basically the audience waits for the show to begin and they start talking amoungst themselves. The topic of who they want to talk to almost certainly comes and they tell each other about their dear departed loved ones and such. JE and crew listen in and presto he is able to divine weird stuff out of left field. It is important to differentiate (sp) between hot and cold readings. JE does bring out some spectacular ‘out of left field’ stuff that there is now way you could pick this information up from a ‘cold’ reading. Stuff like “he had a dog named Stalin” you just don’t pick up from a cold reading. This amazes the audience and sets up his credibility. So he missses he few bu how did he get Stalin? Well he listens in to the audience befor the show and during the commericial breaks. The letter from the person who alleges he attended a taping is interesting but flawed. He claims that ringers were brought in but then why did JE even bother doing a reading on him? JE only does 3 or 4 people a show and 15 people in a van who don’t sit together could be an entire show. More likely those people were special guests of the producers and the taping wasn’t going to start until they showed and they weren’t going to sit around with the other ‘non-special’ people. One thing that bothers me with this thread is that several people who havn’t seen the show pass judgement on it. That IMHO is ignorance that should be fought as well as falling for a guy like JE. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531/40 "2001-02-21T04:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* > \*\*No, what makes me dislike what he does, is that he presents his program as the truth. If it admitted to be fiction, I wouldn’t mind so much. It would be no more offensive than Firescape (nice one, Eve) or that trash about the French bimbo wandering the galaxy in search of her G-Spot. \*\* I am so ashamed that I know this, but if you’re talking about “Lexx” then that bimbo is German. “Crossing Over” immediately follows “Lexx” on Sci-Fi, making for what is possibly the most horrible lineup in the history of television. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-the-other-side-of-credibility/54531.md?page=3)