# "Crossing Over w/ John Edward"- for real or clever con? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151 "2001-05-22T01:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/81 "2003-09-08T15:38:49Z")
**Ironikinit** , I saw that documentary too. It was extremely fair, and Randi was demonstrably even-handed. At one point the results started to look like the “homeopathic” water might be producing a genuinely positive result, and Randi seemed prepared to declare there was indeed something up. But then it turned out to be a statistical anomaly. Randi almost looked disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/82 "2003-09-08T15:46:07Z")
Lekatt-You’ve indicated that you don’t ‘buy’ that cold readings happen-is this correct? If it is, then how do you explain Miss Cleo-whom you do not believe to be a psychic? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/83 "2003-09-08T15:51:31Z")
Is it time to induct **lekatt** into the **SDMB One-Trick Pony Chowder and Marching Society** yet? Or did I miss the ceremony already? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/84 "2003-09-08T16:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually this thread was about James Van Praagh. > > If you care to read through the 36 pages you will find the skeptics were defeated in all their assumptions. > > They could not prove that “cold readings” had merit or that they were used by any psychic. It was a total rout of the skeptical position. > > They retaliated with numerous personal attacks (pages of them) because they had nothing real to offer. > > Love This has to be the most self-delusional interpretation of that thread one could possibly create. I _do have feelings about people_. Ever have the hair on the back of your neck stand up? John Edward gives me that feeling. One guy at a Mazda dealership gave me the exact same feeling back in 1995. We bought a Saturn. ---
**Author:** ![NotMrKnowItAll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@NotMrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotMrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/85 "2003-09-08T16:04:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > And I will give you same answer. > > Spiritual people work with feelings, emotions, and thought patterns, it is a way of gaining knowledge. **That’s how I knew, and most other psychics knew that Cleo was not presenting an honest program.** > > Love **lekatt,** are you a psychic? ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/86 "2003-09-08T16:24:25Z")
Not much to add really in that the Doper crew has pretty much said it all, but I feel like giving my .02. John Edward is a fake…as are all “famous” psychic. I look at this way…what dead person would come back and speak to someone who charges people to hear it?? I would like to think a soul that has passed on would have a bit more integrity. And if you truly had that kind of power why dont you do what you do for free? Help those who dont have your power. Make the world a better place to live, bring world peace, that sort of thing. Having said that…im not totally convinced that some sort of psychic abilities dont exist, or maybe just havent been discovered. When you get down to it we all come from the same source…people, animals, things…etc. We were all born from the same big bang and are made of much the same matter. I like to think that on some unknown atomic level maybe it is possible to communicate or influence people or objects. Im kinda going with the whole “Force” idea…but just not in a geeky “its my religon” way. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/87 "2003-09-08T16:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*No, that is not possible. Psychic ability is proof of spiritual connection. Spiritual connection can not be maintained by dishonest people. There is the energy of Love to be considered, if you are in tune with Love you have others goodwill in mind. If you don’t – Love and its energy is blocked, leaving you out of the loop. > > I have heard John Edward say “its all about love” many, many times on his program.\*\* Is it just me, or does this sound like something straight out of a bad 60’s counterculture film? ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/88 "2003-09-08T16:46:47Z")
I’ve got an idea to test John Edwards. Why don’t we get a number of people from the boards and do his show? We can all come up with our own fake familes, people who have died, brothers who got sick etc. We then talk about our “families” while waiting to get in to the show, as I’ve heard that he may listen in on people waiting to get in. If he comes out and does a couple of our fake familes he’ll be caught. Or if he happens to actually get something about our real familes that we haven’t told any one then we might be able to believe him. I wanna be the one with the aunt who’s name is Amanda Hugnkiss. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/89 "2003-09-08T16:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*The last top psychic to call Randi out was from England. She asked the test be televised for all to see. Randi refused as he has on all such requests. A honest person has nothing to hide. > \*\* As usual, **lekatt** is not telling the whole story. This ‘psychic’ that challenged Randi was a favorite on a credulous morning TV show and was a frequent guest. This ‘psychic’ was the usualy cold-reading nonsense combined with a bit of smarmy ass-kissing of the hosts. Said psyhic did undergo the preliminary test with a JREF representative in England and _failed miserably_. Word leaked out a bit and some poeple started to question the psychic’s ability. Psychic went on TV and made all kinds of noise about Randi being afraid and demanded another test (actually, he demanded a test, failing to acknowledge the first failed test). The TV show, catering to the psychic’s whims, demanded Randi show up at a specified date that would have Randi dropping his entire schedule and rushing out to England (he was given effectively 2-3 days notice). Randi rightly refused to play dancing monkey for this fraud. Wish I had a link. I’ll look for one. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/90 "2003-09-08T16:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > **But scientists _like it_ when science is rewritten! That’s the whole _point_ of science** Word. You don’t get a Nobel for restating somebody else’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/91 "2003-09-08T19:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > > And I will give you same answer. > > Spiritual people work with feelings, emotions, and thought patterns, it is a way of gaining knowledge. I have a feeling that John Edward can’t really talk to the dead. Why are your feelings more valid than mine? Is there an objective way to show that somebody is a real phychic, or a fake one, that doesn’t rely on feelings and hunches? > [@](#): > > That’s how I knew, and most other psychics knew that Cleo was not presenting an honest program. > > Love Can you show me any cites from anybody in the phychic community who denounced Miss Cleo **before** her legal problems began? If Miss Cleo wasn’t a psychic, what on earth was she doing when she did her readings, and how did she manage to convince others she was real? How is a Miss Cleo reading substantially different from a John Edwards reading? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/92 "2003-09-08T19:55:10Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s how I knew, and most other psychics knew that Cleo was not presenting an honest program. **lekatt** , are you saying it took psychic ability to know Miss Cleo was a fraud? Hah. I guess you’re a nicer person than me, since you trust the operators of 900 numbers. > [@](#): > > I have heard John Edward say “its all about love” many, many times on his program. Oh, well, THAT proves he’s genuine and not just telling people what they want to hear. > [@](#): > > Spiritual connection can not be maintained by dishonest people. There is the energy of Love to be considered, if you are in tune with Love you have others goodwill in mind. If you don’t – Love and its energy is blocked, leaving you out of the loop. Didn’t Jimmy Swaggert, Bill Bennett and a lot of other people say they had spiritual connections? Are you saying you knew in advance these were dishonest people? (You weren’t alone, but it had nothing to do with prognostication). For pizza’s sake, **Lekatt**. You’re invoking the Great Cosmic Love Energy Fairy to explain _bending a spoon_. We’re talking about parlor tricks here. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/93 "2003-09-08T19:56:23Z")
Sounds like a “No True Psychic Scotsman” to me… ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/94 "2003-09-08T20:02:52Z")
You have all had your cutesy sayings and normal psychic bashing routines as usual. None of them contain any evidence or proof as usual either. Hope you feel better. Love ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/95 "2003-09-08T20:09:17Z")
Ouch, well, that shut me up. I guess **Lekatt** has proven that we have to respect the claims made by any self-indulgment charlatan on television, because it’s all about love. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/96 "2003-09-08T20:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*You have all had your cutesy sayings and normal psychic bashing routines as usual. None of them contain any evidence or proof as usual either. Hope you feel better. \*\* And whither _your_ proof, **lekatt**? Where are your replicatable studies? Where is your testable hypothesis on the mechanism for psychic abilities? You’ve provided none of these things, yet ask them of others. You are the one making the extaordinary claims, yet you refuse to provide even the most basic, hard evidence to support your position. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/97 "2003-09-08T20:39:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\* Where’s **Doc Cathode**? \*\* I’ve been cleaning my apartment. Besides, as I’ve said before, Lekatt’s condition has advanced to the point where debate is truly pointless, and real spiritual experiences are impossible for him. PsuedoTheizine poisoning can be overcome. But, it requires effort by the victim. As time goes on, the condition worsens and becomes harder to fight. Eventually, the damage is total and irreversible. ``` When I first detected the symptoms in Lekatt's Non-Corporeal-Consciousness-Field, I hoped that I could convince him of disease and help him cure himself. He refused to hear me. I watched with sadness and horror as the poison spread. At last, as I knew it would, came the day when his MetaConscious Mind had been competely destroyed. This is the final stage of the disease. Lekatt may live for decades. But the part of him that held the potential for actual psychic ability, the part that was capable of truly perceiving spiritual things, the part that has the power to make person more than they were and more than they thought they could be, that part is dead. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/98 "2003-09-08T20:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > **You have all had your cutesy sayings and normal psychic bashing routines as usual. None of them contain any evidence or proof as usual either.** **lekatt** is complaining about lack of proof? Got enough irony in your diet? Maybe if _you_ could provide some proof that psychic abilities exist, then this debate would actually go somewhere. As things stand, everything that “psychics” claim to be able to do can be repeated by any “non-psychic” person with a little practice. There have always been charlatans ready to use any trick in the book to dupe their clientèle, and there is nothing to suggest that people like John Edward are any different. I’ll tell you what. As soon as John Edward (or any other “psychic”) can reliably produce results that are more accurate than your standard cold-reader, _then_ I’ll believe that there’s something more to it. Or better yet, why don’t you provide a cite for one of the numerous studies that you claim have _proven_ that psychic abilities exist? Or are you just going to pepper the argument with “your cutesy sayings and normal \*\*anti-\*\*psychic bashing routines as usual”? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/99 "2003-09-08T20:47:05Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you tell the difference between a genuine phychic, and a fradulent one, Kenneth? The great unanswerable question. Somehow, believers can’t answer this one very well. The only answers I’ve ever seen to this one are all along the lines of “It takes one to know one. You just get a feeling about them and you know they’re for real.” Can you answer this question in this thread? Where’s **Doc Cathode**? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/100 "2003-09-08T21:40:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\* > Can you answer this question in this thread? > > Where’s **Doc Cathode**? \*\* I can tell the difference. I have a portable device designed for analyzing the NCCF and recording data. Psychic abilities require a MetaConscious Mind that is at least partially Actualized. A quick scan reveals whether the MCM is actualized. Several other Dopers have fully Actualized MetaConscious Minds. However, as I’ve said before, the nature of the relationship between the human mind and reality prevents a NonActualized person from even seeing such data. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151.md?page=6)