# "Crossing Over w/ John Edward"- for real or clever con? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151 "2001-05-22T01:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/101 "2003-09-08T21:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*I can tell the difference. I have a portable device designed for analyzing the NCCF and recording data. > > Psychic abilities require a MetaConscious Mind that is at least partially Actualized. A quick scan reveals whether the MCM is actualized. Several other Dopers have fully Actualized MetaConscious Minds. > > However, as I’ve said before, the nature of the relationship between the human mind and reality prevents a NonActualized person from even seeing such data. \*\* Yes, and if things get out of hand, you can always fire up your Proton Pack. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/102 "2003-09-08T22:03:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > I know of many people who honestly believe they are psychics, but their performance proves otherwise. They don’t last long, people know when a psychic is connected and when they are not. > > Some even waiver back and forth, according to the attitude of their mind. How can we distinguish between a genuine psychic waiving back and forth, and somebody who is making guesses switching between lucky guesses and unlucky guesses? > [@](#): > > Spirituality is not a science, expecting it to be will be disappointing. > > Love Lekatt, you belong to a group of people that has chosen to accept whether things are true based upon feelings and hunches. Other people want more than feelings and hunches. They want real proof. These people aren’t bad, or mean spirited. They aren’t closed minded. They are perfectly willing to change their mind just as soon as compelling evidence comes along. But it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/103 "2003-09-08T22:12:56Z")
Lecatt, are the “psychics” that can fool you and tell you what you want to hear the real ones? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/104 "2003-09-08T22:24:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Yes, and if things get out of hand, you can always fire up your Proton Pack. \*\* 1980’s death ray. ow! Ow! OW! ---
**Author:** ![Non-PC\_Jell-o\_Ad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@Non-PC\_Jell-o\_Ad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Non-PC_Jell-o_Ad)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/105 "2003-09-08T23:41:40Z")
I agree with Dob that JE and other “famous psychics” are charlatans. However, I believe that there are some people who really can access information that they have no normal way of knowing (hence the term paranormal). How do they do it? I’ve no clue. Why aren’t they rich playing the stock market or Vegas? No idea. All I’ve got is an anecdote. My mother went to a psychic fair when I was a kid. She paid her $10 and the woman did a reading. After it was over, she asked my mother how accurate she had been. My mother went over her comments and predictions point by point: - Made sense to assume my mother had children, due to her age. 50-50 shot that it would be a daughter. - Tell-tale sign of a long-worn ring no longer there on left ring finger. Good indicator that she was divorced, and, with the first assumption, that there would be visitation issues regarding said daughter. - The ex-spouse was a good bet to live “way up North” because, from Florida, damn near everywhere else _is_ north. - “Daughter would be visiting her father in the spring” was wrong, because he always had her come up for Christmas. (I missed the snow.) - “Daughter would cut her visit short, call home in tears, and want to come home immediately” was dead wrong, because she always enjoyed the visits, wanted to stay longer, and couldn’t wait for the next one. This was in February. Later that month, my father re-married and moved the new wife into the old family homestead. Rather than tell me, he sent me plane tickets so I could visit early that year. On my birthday. In May. The inevitable new wife vs. pre-teen friction occurred, and I did indeed call home in tears to ask if I could leave early. I hadn’t known about the marriage. My mother didn’t know, either. And she had made it a point to keep her comments pretty much to “yes” and “no” during the reading. So, how did the woman know about my miserable spring trip three months before it happened? BTSOOM. But she was right. Like I said, just an anecdote. I would still take everything a purported psychic might say to me with not just a grain, but an entire salt-lick’s worth of the stuff. However, I won’t let hardshell skepticism keep me from seeing when they do get something right. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/106 "2003-09-09T00:08:17Z")
As you say **Non-PC** , she had a few hits that were fairly reasonable guesses. As to the one about the trip and coming home in tears, in the spring, well, it’s a good guess but it’s not an entirely unreasonable thing that could happen in a divorced parent/child relationship(particularly if the trip was "up north, since not everybody wants to travel north in winter). Did she specifically say it would happen that year? If not she could always come back later and say “it will happen. Just wait.” I’m glad you’re skeptical though. By the way, I just realized **Lekatt** used to be the Iraqi minister of information. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/107 "2003-09-09T00:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > **If you care to read through the 36 pages you will find the skeptics were defeated in all their assumptions.** Ooh! Ooh! [I found him!](http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/#quotes) Really Lakatt, you should bring more than just anecdotes to a debate. Everyone can find some story that supports their own possition. As soon as you find a psychic ability that can be done in completely controlled situations, where we can plainly rule out other, natural methods of doing such actions (Including confirmation bias), then we might take note. Until then, it’s someone who seems to be exploiting known tricks to seem impressive. [preview]Gah! Damn you Photopat :)[/preview] ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/108 "2003-09-09T11:41:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*You have all had your cutesy sayings and normal psychic bashing routines as usual. None of them contain any evidence or proof as usual either. Hope you feel better. \*\* Come on and help us out Lekatt, it’s not that we don’t want to believe-it’s that we need evidence/facts to believe. I’d love it if the world was mystical and magical and I could communicate with the dead-unfortunately the evidence isn’t there. As an example, I point to your continual stumbling block-the difference between “real” psychics and “fake” psychics. I repeat my question: > [@](#): > > Miss Cleo still claims to be a psychic, but we are supposed to discount her claims because her business managers were dishonest? > > Remember, she’s claiming that she was duped, not that she intentionally duped people (IIRC). So I ask again, why do you not take her word on being a psychic? Can psychics not fall prey to bad business managers? Do you still deny cold reading? If you do, then how did Miss Cleo dupe people? What is the difference, aside from a feeling-which probably came **after she was busted** , between a real psychic and a fake psychic? I’m not trying to be offensive and I think you would do psychic’s a real justice (if they are indeed genuine) by answering this question. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/109 "2003-09-09T11:51:15Z")
distinguishing the real from the fakes In the undead thread, I provide the answers that I received from a few other psychic experts. One guy says that he has a foolproof test w/ something like fifteen points to it. But, he can’t share the test with us mere mortals. Rest assured though, that they psychics he certifies are certified psychics. “Takes one to know one,” is the most common response. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/110 "2003-09-09T12:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*distinguishing the real from the fakes > > In the undead thread, I provide the answers that I received from a few other psychic experts. > > One guy says that he has a foolproof test w/ something like fifteen points to it. But, he can’t share the test with us mere mortals. Rest assured though, that they psychics he certifies are certified psychics. > > “Takes one to know one,” is the most common response. \*\* Don’t forget the common assertion that the physical presence of anyone who is skeptical of psychic powers causes such powers to become erratic and unreliable. Of course they work just fine with no skeptics around. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/111 "2003-09-09T16:37:51Z")
I think it is hogwash. I also think these psychics play on people’s emotions. Even in the WIzard of Oz the Carnival guy tricked Dorothy into believing…because she wanted to believe! SOme people just have voids in their life that need to be filled and they will cling to anything to satisfy the need. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/112 "2003-09-09T17:35:27Z")
Lekatt, I’ve heard you make two claims before about psychic ability in the earlier thread: You could predict the result of a coin toss better than random chance (7 out of 7) You could predict the gender of the fetus in a pregnant woman, better than random chance (19 out of 20) Why not try to demonstrate those claims under controlled conditions, and take James Randi’s million dollar challenge? Imagine if you were the first to win! I have nothing against you lekatt, and even though I’ve found you to be somewhat frustrating to debate with, I’d be there cheering you on if you were the first to demonstrate supernatural abilities under controlled conditions! Go and get 'em, tiger! > **[Home](https://web.randi.org)** > > JREF ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/113 "2003-09-09T17:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*There are studies that show psychic ability is real, and that life after death is real, plenty of them. Science has always ignored and/or suppressed them for obvious reasons. If science admits they are real, then most of science will have to be rewritten. If somebody proves that psychic ability is real, they will get a Nobel Prize. Science thrives on new discoveries. I see no reason why scientists would ignore such a profound discovery **if it’s been properly demonstrated**. > [@](#): > > The concerns raised in this thread about what psychics should do, or could do, show the poster’s lack of knowledge in this area. > > I can’t teach what, how, and soforth about spiritual events in this thread one post at a time. If the poster has an interest, then a study should be made in the psychic and spiritual literature. The skeptical literature is biased to say the least. Look to the people who do, not those that sit on the sidelines and criticize. If you want to exchange links, I will make a deal with you. If you promise to read the skeptical pages I link to, word for word, even if reading it makes you uncomfortable, and give me a brief summary of what the pages are saying, I will do the same for the pro-psychic links you give me. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/114 "2003-09-09T18:16:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Lekatt, I’ve heard you make two claims before about psychic ability in the earlier thread: > > You could predict the result of a coin toss better than random chance (7 out of 7) > > You could predict the gender of the fetus in a pregnant woman, better than random chance (19 out of 20) > > Why not try to demonstrate those claims under controlled conditions, and take James Randi’s million dollar challenge? > > Imagine if you were the first to win! > > I have nothing against you lekatt, and even though I’ve found you to be somewhat frustrating to debate with, I’d be there cheering you on if you were the first to demonstrate supernatural abilities under controlled conditions! > > Go and get 'em, tiger! > > [http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) \*\* YOu heard wrong. 100% of the quotes presumed to be said by Lekatt are lies. That is the skeptical way, twist everything. LOve ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/115 "2003-09-09T18:20:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*As you say **Non-PC** , she had a few hits that were fairly reasonable guesses. As to the one about the trip and coming home in tears, in the spring, well, it’s a good guess but it’s not an entirely unreasonable thing that could happen in a divorced parent/child relationship(particularly if the trip was "up north, since not everybody wants to travel north in winter). Did she specifically say it would happen that year? If not she could always come back later and say “it will happen. Just wait.” > > I’m glad you’re skeptical though. > > By the way, I just realized **Lekatt** used to be the Iraqi minister of information. \*\* That is the cruelest insult of all, I wonder if you get a skeptical award for that one. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/116 "2003-09-09T18:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*How can we distinguish between a genuine psychic waiving back and forth, and somebody who is making guesses switching between lucky guesses and unlucky guesses? > > Lekatt, you belong to a group of people that has chosen to accept whether things are true based upon feelings and hunches. > > Other people want more than feelings and hunches. They want real proof. These people aren’t bad, or mean spirited. They aren’t closed minded. They are perfectly willing to change their mind just as soon as compelling evidence comes along. But it hasn’t. \*\* You are wrong. I chose what I have personally experienced to guide me. That is personal experience. Love ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/117 "2003-09-09T18:55:50Z")
Lekatt, I know that we have butted heads in the past, and for my part I apologize. I am trying to understand this concept once again and I’d appreciate an answer or two if you can give it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/118 "2003-09-09T19:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*YOu heard wrong. 100% of the quotes presumed to be said by Lekatt are lies. That is the skeptical way, twist everything. > LOve \*\* Are saying that someone else logged in under your name and posted those things? Or are you just counting on no one being willing to link to your posts? Because those things were posted by **Lekatt**. What’s the deal Kenny? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/119 "2003-09-09T20:20:24Z")
> [@](#): > > You are wrong. I chose what I have personally experienced to guide me. That is personal experience. Your personal experience means diddly, 'specially compared to the personal experiences that were contrary to yours AND happen to be backed up by evidence. You claimed you had cites to prove your extraordinary claims. Post them. Is it really so difficult? Or maybe you just don’t completely believe your own claims, and as such don’t want to risk them getting brutalized? Is your conviction really so fragile? Post your evidence… an honest person has nothing to hide, as you said. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151/120 "2003-09-09T20:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*YOu heard wrong. 100% of the quotes presumed to be said by Lekatt are lies. That is the skeptical way, twist everything. > LOve \*\* Lekatt, here is a link to your posts and a copy of everything you said, verbatim. **Not a jot nor a tittle has been altered from the way it was originally posted on January 23, 2003 at 01:20 AM.** If you wish to chime in with how I am taking what you say out of context, I invite you to do so. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=156629&perpage=50&highlight=psychic&pagenumber=6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=156629&perpage=50&highlight=psychic&pagenumber=6) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*My answer is the same as the first time, things I can’t or don’t know is simply things I can’t check or eliminate. Perhaps if you give me a list of some of those “things” I could better answer you. > > Most of the rest of your post centers around how can I tell a real psychic from a fake one. The old saying “it takes one to know one” is appropriate. I look for a lot of things, the words used, the attitude, the feelings I get from them, and sometimes I can see what they see. I don’t remember ever being totally wrong about anyone’s psychic ability. John and James ability appear better than it is due to film editing, but I am comfortable with the fact they are both real psychics. > > If others don’t agree it’s ok, I wish we all could have a reading from them, It would be great fun. > > My ability is brittle, it comes and goes, sometimes I can do wonders and sometimes not. I claim no ability so I won’t make a fool of myself. > > I am called Yoda were I work and when one of the women get pregnate they ask me what the sex of the baby will be, I have missed one time in about 20 tries. A skeptic once laughed at me and pulled a coin out of his pocket and asked me to to call the flip. After 7 straight accurate calls he pocketed his coin and walked off. Now could I repeat this, who knows, maybe, maybe not. The psychic world is not science it is not black and white ever. > > Love > Leroy \*\* To your credit, you did say that you make no claim to any ability. However, then you seemed to contradict yourself at the last paragraph (emphasis added by me): > [@](#): > > **I am called Yoda were I work and when one of the women get pregnate they ask me what the sex of the baby will be, I have missed one time in about 20 tries. A skeptic once laughed at me and pulled a coin out of his pocket and asked me to to call the flip. After 7 straight accurate calls he pocketed his coin and walked off.** Now could I repeat this, who knows, maybe, maybe not. The psychic world is not science it is not black and white ever. Why not try it again, lekatt? **Even if your ability comes and goes, if it actually is an ability you should be able to have an overall prediction rate that is higher than random chance.** You have nothing to lose by going for a million dollar prize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-over-w-john-edward-for-real-or-clever-con/66151.md?page=7)