Here’s a little experiment to try if you run into a physic:
Answer their statements with a simple Yes or No. Don’t feed them more information that could help them make guesses.
No. No they havn’t. If that were the case, then the scientific communities would be busy seeking out the source of these supposed talent. You would see respectable academic journals discussing the implications of psychic ability. Etc.
To resolve the fact that this above does not occur with the belief that psychic power has been proven, you’ve got to introduce some irrationality into the equation somewhere. I bet you think that “those mean ol’ scientists” are just out to get the poor little psychics. Or perhaps they just run from it because they cannot explain it. Either way, to assume that all members of the scientific community are personally offended by ideas of mysticism is a completely baseless assumption. To assume that scientists hide from things they can’t explain shows utter contempt and ignorance for what they do- seek experimental explainations for things they havn’t explained yet. (String theory is not proposed by intellectual cowards.)
What it pretty much boils down to is that the scientific method and the community that uses it (That is, the sum total of professional thinkers in our society) are a fuck load smarter than any individual one of us. There are times when it’s worth defferring to their opinion not because some mystical power makes them right, but because they are very careful that they always advise on the best explaination for things.
The irrationality doesn’t lie with “all scientists”. It lies with “you”.
-C
The only problem I see with the JREF challenge is, its not enough money. The TV/phone psychics are making millions as is. Why risk exposing themselves for a paltry million. You will get plenty of small timers taking a shot, but to Edward, Browne, and Company its not worth to potential bad PR, they make more money ignoring and or disrespecting it.
I doubt you will ever see any psychic “taking the test”.
There has never been available to the public a transcript of a Randi test for psychic ability. The questions asked, the answers given and the method of determining accuracy.
The last top psychic to call Randi out was from England. She asked the test be televised for all to see. Randi refused as he has on all such requests. A honest person has nothing to hide.
Incidentally, Randi believes in psychic ability otherwise he would not try to “test” it.
There are studies that show psychic ability is real, and that life after death is real, plenty of them. Science has always ignored and/or suppressed them for obvious reasons. If science admits they are real, then most of science will have to be rewritten.
The concerns raised in this thread about what psychics should do, or could do, show the poster’s lack of knowledge in this area.
I can’t teach what, how, and soforth about spiritual events in this thread one post at a time. If the poster has an interest, then a study should be made in the psychic and spiritual literature. The skeptical literature is biased to say the least. Look to the people who do, not those that sit on the sidelines and criticize.
Then intelligent questions can be asked about the subject.
http://www.johnedward.net/about_John_Edward.htm
A link that tells more about John Edward.
In this thread the skeptics rule, but in the general public they are only a small group of noisy people.
Love
Well, I took a brief look at the previous thread. Here is what I saw on the first few pages.
Between six and ten people asked lekatt very real, very relevant questions. lekatt then quit the thread because of the “insults and belittling.”
(I stopped at page 3, by the way.)
The most interesting thing I saw, though. lekatt admits that cold reading does exist, and even that it is possible to get into the public spotlight using it.
So how can you tell the difference between a poor cold reader and an extremely talented one: especially one with a good research staff and ways to perform warm and cold reading?
Correct.
Incorrect.
Actually IIRC we provided quite a few links to the contrary. If you didn’t want to read them, I believe I even told you about a Penn and Teller show where a “psychic” came out and said he was a ‘cold reader’.
But you, once again, choose to ignore such evidence because it doesn’t fit with your paradigm.
It’s been a while, so my memory is a little fuzzy, but IIRC you said something to the effect of “Miss Cleo” being a fraud, right?
When I asked how you knew she was, you basically said it was a feeling that only believers would know.
(or something to that effect, my memory is a bit fuzzy).
So, I’ll ask again fresh: Do you think Miss Cleo is a fraud?
If so, how can you tell?
After all, she still claims to be genuine (I do remember posting a link attributing to that fact).
Just the other day, I saw Sylvia Brown on Montel. She made a passing reference to having said something about there being “bombs in the streets, explosions”. She supposedly said this sometime pre-9/11. So while there might not be anyone who openly predicted 9/11, Sylvia is at least <i>claiming</i> she did.
By the way, whenever I watch JE’s show, I am struck by how much he muscles people into fitting their situation into the parameters which he sets.
JE: “I see somebody, a father figure with the letter A, had a very quick passing.”
Audience Member: <embarrased pause> “…no…”
JE: “Yes, yes I do, a father figure with the letter A.”
AM: “Umm…”
JE: “I know what I’m talking about.”
AM: “I have an uncle named Anthony. His father-in-law died.”
JE: “See? I told you I was right.”
Another thing he does is move on to a different member of the audience if they seem pretty excited about what he’s saying. For example, he goes to a certain person and tells them their mother, who collected plates, is coming over from the other side. This person’s mother is still alive and they can’t think of anyone who collects plates. Edwards will grind her until someone in the general vicinity will stand up and say, “Well, my grandmother is dead, and she had plates that she hung up on the wall.” JE will then say “Oh, then it must have been you I was picking up on” and move to that audience member.
And I will give you same answer.
Spiritual people work with feelings, emotions, and thought patterns, it is a way of gaining knowledge. That’s how I knew, and most other psychics knew that Cleo was not presenting an honest program.
Love
So do you think her psychic skills were genuine? (I’m a bit unclear) Do you think someone can be a psychic AND be a scummy business person?
Perhaps you would care to show controlled studies on “cold readings” now. Along with a definition of same. Check out Randi’s definitions. He says any reading a psychic gives can be given verbatium to 10 other people with the same result.
Then you can show proof that John Edward uses these cold readings.
I will wait for your proof.
Love
Is there anyone out there today who claims to be a psychic but whom you “know” is not?
What kind of evidence would you require to be convinced that someone who you currently “know” is a psychic is actually a fraud?
No, that is not possible. Psychic ability is proof of spiritual connection. Spiritual connection can not be maintained by dishonest people. There is the energy of Love to be considered, if you are in tune with Love you have others goodwill in mind. If you don’t – Love and its energy is blocked, leaving you out of the loop.
I have heard John Edward say “its all about love” many, many times on his program.
Love
I know of many people who honestly believe they are psychics, but their performance proves otherwise. They don’t last long, people know when a psychic is connected and when they are not. Some even waiver back and forth, according to the attitude of their mind. Spirituality is not a science, expecting it to be will be disappointing.
Love
No offense, but you ignored 36 pages before, why should I believe you wouldn’t do the same now? I also pointed to the Penn and Teller program, which I’m not even sure if you’ve watched or not. I realize it’s not a cite, but I fail to see how it doesn’t amply demonstrate cold reading.
As for proof that John Edward is using cold reading; he’s the one with the extraordinary claim, not I. As far as I’m concerned he’s using the perfectly natural method of cold reading. A method you can use yourself. Why should we believe differently? Just because he says so?
Miss Cleo still claims to be a psychic, but we are supposed to discount her claims because her business managers were dishonest?
Remember, she’s claiming that she was duped, not that she intentionally duped people (IIRC). So I ask again, why do you not take her word on being a psychic? Can psychics not fall prey to bad business managers?
Could you please expand on the highlighted phrase? What criterion distinguishes success from failure?
So, are you categorically predicting that what happened to Miss Cleo will not happen to any famous psychic currently in operation?
Thank you for your dialogue here, Leroy, I assure you my objective is not to “trap” you but to understand why you thin psychic ability exists.
think, beg pardon
The great unanswerable question. Somehow, believers can’t answer this one very well. The only answers I’ve ever seen to this one are all along the lines of “It takes one to know one. You just get a feeling about them and you know they’re for real.”
Yet another difficult question for Kenny Kattein.
Can you answer either of these questions in this thread?
Where’s Doc Cathode?
It’s pretty obvious that he tests it because he doesn’t believe in it, and he wants to show that, since no one can pass a simple controlled test, that it most likely doesn’t exist.
Cite, please. I’d be genuinely interested to see an actual study that shows this. Oh, and this discussion is about psychic abilities, not life after death, so I don’t want to see that “study” that you keep throwing around about NDEs. You know, the one that doesn’t address whether that NDEs are real or not, but only examines what factors influence the occurrence of a NDE in cardiac patients.
But scientists like it when science is rewritten! That’s the whole point of science: To be constantly refined by new information. Anyone who thinks that science will suppress new information just because it doesn’t fit with what is currently known doesn’t understand science.
And the “psychic literature” isn’t? I find that hard to believe.
A link maintained by John Edward, whom many people here deem to be a fraud. You will forgive me if I am unconvinced that his own website claims that he is the real deal.
Which is a real shame, since skeptics, by definition, have an open mind.
Hey, Edwards could be a douche too. What’s his voting record?