Lekatt’s experience of his personal experience can be at odds w/ reality as it has been recorded.
Yes, asking for evidence is SO twisting.
BELIEVER: “Psychics exist! All the skeptics are twisting everything we say!”
SKEPTIC: “Yeah? Prove it.”
B: “See?!? Twisting my words! Lies and deceit! Can’t trust a skeptic!”
S: “Yeah? Prove it.”
B: “I will not hear these unbeliefs! I am superior, I FEEEEEEEEEEEEEL things, I’m full of LOVE!”
S: “Yeah? Prove it.”
Some day, I’d like to see a skeptic vs. believer argument that doesn’t follow that pattern.
Well, if you’ll carefully read what lekatt posted, you’ll notice that he only said that he’d done these things in the past and that he wasn’t sure if they were replicable. ( I’ve noticed that unrepeatable past events make up quite a bit of the evidence for paranormal psychic phenomena. ) So, you see, he was just telling us about his experience. Our MMV, of course, (had we been there).
So, in other words, Simon, Lekatt had two instances of his life of freakish luck. Just two instances. I’m assuming that Lekatt is at least 13 years old. Y’know how many coincidental guesses I’ve had by the time I hit my teens? Man oh man, based on Lekatt’s own testimony, we can conclude, if anything, his supernatural power is STUNTED compared to the average Joe!
Hmmm, I’ve predicted that lekatt will never post a coherent argument, and I’ve been right at least 400 times in a row.
I must be psychic!
All psychics are pure BS. You don’t need James Randi to debunk them, I’ll do it. Ask some simple questions,
1.) What are the numbers to the next powerball lottery?
2.) What will be the score of (any spporting event)
3.) Take him to Vegas, the psychic should know the numbers in keno, the next number rolled in dice, the next number in roulette, plus he would be a 21 god because a true psychic would know all the cards dealt.
4.) What’s my wife’s name?
5.) What did I have for dinner last night? (easy question for him huh?)
The first three questions deal with gambling. A REAL psychic would not have to sell books or be on TV, he would be so rich, Bill Gates would ask for for money. Of course, they would say that the “gift” comes from God, and it is not be abused for financial gain.
A psychic is the king of bullshit, he/she will make a very general statement and thye subject will help the psychic with the details, (example: You have a father, he is a man) etc.
CORNDOG psychic picks
World series-Yankees vs. Cubs, Cubs in 7 games
Super Bowl-Tennessee Titans
Bush will lose the election to Wesley Clark.
I will fart.
I will pay taxes.
I will die.
lekatt, you and I have had enough encounters on this message board that I think you’ll reccognize my name and style. Like you, I have a deep-rooted sense of spirituality and I’ve learned to trust that spirituality. I also have faith in a benevolent and loving God. That said, my spirit, as well as my mind, tells me that John Edward is a fraud who preys on people’s weakness, sorrow, pain and desire. I’m sorry, but you’re only asking me to take your word for Truth, and I see no reason to trust your experiences over mine.
Respectfully, believe it or not,
CJ
(formerly cjhoworth)
Merely an observation. You constantly show the same regard for reality as Comical Ali. Your claim that in the looooong thread skeptics failed to prove anything, while technically correct in the strictest sense (all anybody, on either side can do is link to articles about proof, not actually present it on a message board, as has been pointed out to you many times), it’s laughable in the broad sense. You ignore anything and everything that contradicts your narrow beliefs and just keep repeating “nde’s/psychic power have been proven and the skeptics are just trying to keep people from seeing the truth.” So, the comparison was apt. [Lisa Simpson] APT, I SAY, AAAAPPPPT[/Lisa Simpson].
If I may… 
I have been debating with JE-believers for over 2 years now, and in my experience, they are not inclined to look at real evidence that their hero is a fake. We can present one argument after another, back it up with plenty of evidence and common sense, they will simply move on to their next point, which, again, will be thoroughly refuted. And so on.
I am the editor of SkepticReport.com, an on-line magazine for skepticism and critical thinking. I hope I am not violating any rules here, but I thought these links might be of interest to those who want to look past the chatter and read some analyses of what really goes on in JE-Land. I don’t expect any believer to be swayed, I merely hope that it makes just a few people stop and think.
How John Edward got two "special hits"
One of the most frequent arguments heard from believers in psychic medium John Edward is that he is real because he gets those “special hits”: A lot of precise information, seemingly from out of the blue, which he did not get from the cold-reading techniques he usually employs. Here is a very likely explanation…
More…
The Many Contradictions of John Edward
This was collated by a prolific poster on the TVTalkshows.com forum about famed psychic medium John Edward. It illustrates with wondrous clarity the many contradictions that John Edward manages to contain within his “message”.
More…
11 Techniques to Talk to the Dead, Part II
Continuing examination of techniques possibly used by “psychic mediums” in their performances, this time of 19 of John Edward “readings” done on the “Larry King Live” show.
More…
The dead say the darndest things
Dazed Glowing Looks. Trained Seals. “I See Dead People!” Uncle Fred coming back as an orb. When medium John Edward came to Nebraska…
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Talking the John Edward Blues
John Edward is a supposed psychic who has written best selling books and has a syndicated TV show of his own: Crossing Over with John Edward. Read why John Edward does much better when he is not talking to the dead live…
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Greatest Hits And Misses of Psychic John Edward
This is part of an analysis of John Edward’s hits and misses.
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Birds of a Feather: A “special hit” does not hold water.
One of the most touted readings by John Edward is the “Feather at Niagara Falls”. It is pulled out whenever John Edward-believers want to prove that John Edward is a real, genuine medium. Well, he isn’t.
More…
/Claus Larsen
Great links, welcome to the SDMB.
I think its easy to see its fake… watch it and see how many hits YOU get, even without him changeing it to suit the person your gonna get alot.
do you have an older family member that died? do you know a john?
I have one simple question for lekatt, elektrakitty, and other believers in the ability of John Edward: Has he ever – even once – told someone something that they (or someone else) didn’t already know, or that wasn’t vague and unverifiable? I mean, he does a reading on you and comes up with the name of your dead mother, but you already know your mother’s name, and that she’s dead. Or he’ll tell you something nice but unverifiable, like that your father says to tell you that he really loved you, even though he never told you that while he was alive.
In the case of elektrakitty, Edward came up with the names of your grandfather and uncle, which you already knew. He told you the exact details of the hospital’s really weird mistake, which you already knew. Even the “Elizabeth - Elissabetha” thing, your husband knew.
Now, even if you totally believe in John Edward’s ability to communicate with the deceased, you should be able to agree that it’s possible for him to have somehow gotten that information from you or from some other living person. I know that you don’t believe that that is how he got it, but you can still agree that it’s possible. You should be able to agree that, while genuine psychic ability is one possible explanation of what Mr. Edward does, another at least possible explanation is that he gets his information from currently living people. See, as long as the other explanation is at least possible, the skeptics will never be convinced.
On the other hand if he were to, for example, tell someone that their dead grandfather says that he had ten thousand dollars buried under the old oak tree in the backyard, and the person dug there and found the money, then the skeptics would have to agree that there really isn’t any other explanation for that than that Mr. Edward was genuinely communicating with the grandfather. It doesn’t even have to involve money; suppose Mr. Edward told someone that their dead mother kept a secret shoebox full of love letters from old flames behind a loose brick in the basement.
Almost everyone has some kind of little (or big) secret(s) that they don’t share with anyone, even their closest loved ones. Some people take these secrets with them to the grave. With all the thousands of readings that John Edward does, surely there would be at least one or two cases where he would be told one of these secrets that involved something tangible and verifiable.
If there is such a case, show us, and the skeptics will have to agree that it couldn’t have been done by cold readings or any of the other “normal” explanations.
On the other hand, if there are no such cases, perhaps you should ask yourself why not.
Roadfood,
You have grasped the problems of spirit communications pretty well. However, there is one aspect you are missing:
JE does point to things that the “sitter” (the person being read) cannot “validate”. People who thinks critically would point to these as “misses”, but not believers. No, JE has invented the concept of “psychic amnesia”, which means that he puts the onus on the sitter to prove that he is wrong. He claims, that if the sitter cannot validate the guess, it’s because they have forgotten!!
Since the readings take place in an environment that JE controls completely (he even forces the audience to sign a contract that allows him to edit the readings as he sees fit!), he claims a “hit”, even when it is a clear “miss”. This way, he inflates his “hit”-rate enormously. This way, he is never wrong.
The vast majority of these “psychic amnesias” are never validated - so we don’t know if, indeed, they are hits.
But his fan(atics) lap it up, with great joy. Go figure.
I personally think the most impressive ‘psychic’ I have ever seen is a British guy called Derren Brown. He performs amazing feats of mind control and mind reading then goes on to explain how its done. He uses a variety of techniques but a lot of it is reading body language and using subtle phrases and intonations of his voice to influence his subjects. Ultimatley he is a much more amazing showman that is far more honest and in my opinion interesting entertainer than the likes of John Edwards purpots to be. Slight Hijack but does anyone find David Blaine and his ridiculous ‘stunt’ to be the height of bad taste? I basically think that in this day and age people (most of us) are not stupid enough to beleive that these people are actually magic and it galls me when they claim to be so. If more of them were honest and just said ‘yes its a trick, but hey its pretty cool’ I would be more impressed. Magic, sleight of hand, mind control tricks are all fascinating and extremley skillful but they are still just entertainment…
If I submitted my name to John Edward to be a guest, what could we assume off the top?
-
I want to talk to dead people. This makes his audience totally biased toward getting so-called “hits.”
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There are some specific dead people that I want to talk to.
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When people die it makes the news in their local paper. Their relatives tend to share names, live in the same area, or are mentioned in obits.
CFLarsen, a highly energetic noob – the life blood of any internet community, WELCOME! – has gone out of his/her way to explain all this too us.
- Given this – I can imagine how, with just the internet (not to mention some basic background checking software), I could scare people with my “spiritual” knowledge. It would all be fake.
OTOH, it could be that dead spirits pick out certain people to communicate with so that the “mediums” can make money off grieving relatives. Perhaps there is a system of kickbacks?
I think another thing John Edwards and the older blonde (Sylvia Brown?) have going for them is speed. I have noticed they tend to be very quick spouting off guesses and implications. They really don’t dwell too long on any one point-they flit around alot.
I’ve been reading this thread and I’m going to add something here:
Since the dawn of the civilization people have claimed to have insights into the future. Whether it be the Aztecs’ prophecy fortelling the arrival of a white-skinned man or the use of seers to forsee the outcome of a war. People have claimed to have the ability to tap and gaze into the future. It didn’t start with Pragh, Browne, or Edwards, it’s been around since man started to become social.
Notwithstanding this, I am too skeptic , but I cannot (for any reason) wave a magic wand and exclaim, “Psychics don’t exist!” Because when analyzing history, it seems improbable that people (from all walks of life, of all races, of all creeds) would just lie in unison about having clairvoyance. In other words, if clairvoyance is just a clever lie, then why has humanity have a history intertwined with it? Surely, you can’t be naive` to believe that everyone who claimed to have the ability was a liar and a schemer.
- Honesty
I’m sure a fair number of them were self-deluded, as well.
I want an explanation for this. How does JE describe the layout of someone’s grandfather’s home and tell them that hidden in the wall is the money that everyone had been wondering about since said grandfather’s passing?? And he was dead on, down to the last detail. I have only watched his show a couple of times and am somewhat of a skeptic but this particular “reading” really impressed me. Short of the audience member being a plant and a really good actor this seemed legitimate. I don’t see audience member standing around and discussing distinct details about dead grandpa’s floor plans while waiting to be seated. I am not a blind believer…I just can’t come up with an explanation. So all you die-hard skeptics…help me out. How’d he do this?