# Crossing the border to give birth \[new title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 10, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175 "2003-03-10T00:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/41 "2003-03-10T20:02:16Z")
I can search for stats if necessary, but “illegal resident” does not equal “under-the-table employee.” Many people work in taxed jobs by presenting fake documents, or by working for employers who never ask them for documents to prove their legal status. I’m a U.S. citizen, and I’ve worked for more than one small business that didn’t realize they were supposed to ask me for proof of my ability to be employed legallly in the U.S. I just told them I was born in the U.S., and I have no accent, so they took my word for it. Stupid, but true. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/42 "2003-03-10T20:06:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hermann Cheruscan \* > **I would venture to guess that most illegals are paid in cash, and therefore do not pay taxes.** Income taxes are not the only taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermann_Cheruscan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/43 "2003-03-10T20:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > but “illegal resident” does not equal “under-the-table employee.” True. Many illegal workers do obtain fraudulent documents in order to obtain work. However, by claiming the max dependants, they can get away from paying any income tax anyway. Although they would still be stuck with paying payroll taxes, unless they are bold enough to try to get the EITC, in which case they would not even pay any payroll tax. > [@](#): > > Income taxes are not the only taxes. Also true. But a person working for cash also does not pay payroll taxes. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/44 "2003-03-10T20:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TTT \* > \*\* if it is almost impossible to become German citizen if your parents aren’t, while people who are of remote German descent (a lot of Eastern Europeans) can easily become german citizens, even if they have no other connection (do not speak german etc.). France OTOH may have something close to a ius soli. I haven’t checked these facts, so you’re on your own here. \*\* France used to rely essentially on ius soli, but during the 90’s the requirments for citizenship (and more generally for immigration) became more stringent. So, now a children born on french soil isn’t any more automatically a french citizen (I believe s/he must live a given number of year in France and must actually ask for citizenship when he reach adulthood, instead of becoming a citizen unwillingly). Supposedly, pregnant women from north africa used to cross the mediterranean sea in order to give birth in France. I doubt there was many people doing that, but having a child was certainly a way for illegal immigrants to get a right of residency, as parents of a french citizen. OTOH, I believe that Germany has changed its laws, and that it’s now much easier for a person living in Germany and not of german descent to become a german citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/45 "2003-03-10T21:09:36Z")
Hah, didn’t know that, **clairobscur**. Sounds like French and Dutch law are quite alike at this point. You’re right that Germany is busy changing the laws, but I thought that the change was halted at the last minute. But as I said, I didn’t bother to check the precise facts for other countries (gasp!). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/46 "2003-03-10T21:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hermann Cheruscan \* > \*\*But a person working for cash also does not pay payroll taxes. \*\* Sales taxes. Use taxes. Gasoline taxes. Alcohol taxes. Cigarette taxes. Property taxes. ¿comprendes? ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175/47 "2003-03-10T22:12:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by me \* > \*\*My sister was born in England while my parents were on a working vacation. They registered her birth at the U.S. Embassy and my sister became a dual citizen. However, just like the story you relate, at some point in her life she was hassled by the U.S. to pick one or the other. I think that she managed to keep her dual citizenship despite being greatly discouraged by the U.S. govt. For some reason I thought dual citizenships were subsequently abolished, but that is clearly not the case. I’ll have to ask dear sis what her status is. \*\* Just a footnote about this. I talked to my sister today and she says any memory I have abour her being hassled about dual citizenship or being asked to choose one over the other is false. She is a dual citizen of the U.K. and the U.S. She did say that the laws in the U.K. have since changed so that birth in the U.K. no longer automatically bestows citizenship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossing-the-border-to-give-birth-new-title/160175.md?page=2)