# Crossover appeal - a meandering pro-Gabbard post **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 2, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058 "2019-08-02T13:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/41 "2019-08-02T17:43:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I choose to support the active candidate that makes the most consistent, forceful and forthright case against war and militarism. Especially in regards to reinitiating Obama’s early attempts at rapprochement with Russia and withdrawing troops rapidly from the Middle East. > > Right now nobody is close to Gabbard, and you’d have to be kidding yourself to deny this. The most consistent right wing voices against war and militarism and the most consistent leftist voices against war and militarism are singing the same tune about the Gabbard campaign. Criticism of her campaign is coming from corporate media shills financed by the war state, and people that have been duped by lying warmongers again and again. Pardon me, but **WillF** is not the arbiter of who is the most anti-war candidate. I disagree with you. Disagreeing with **WillF** does not make someone delusional. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/42 "2019-08-02T18:03:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, you’re _not_ interested in a Democratic candidate that the Republicans can beat? > When did you switch parties? No I’d like to see someone take down Trump and institute a more peaceful foreign policy. I didn’t switch parties. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pardon me, but **WillF** is not the arbiter of who is the most anti-war candidate. I disagree with you. Disagreeing with **WillF** does not make someone delusional. It’s like pulling teeth to get Sanders and Warren to say something antiwar. Either they are too caught up with frivolous stuff, or they think it won’t play in the primary. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/43 "2019-08-02T18:08:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It’s like pulling teeth to get Sanders and Warren to say something antiwar. Either they are too caught up with frivolous stuff, or they think it won’t play in the primary. Bernie’s [topline on the foreign-policy section of his website](https://berniesanders.com/issues/enact-a-responsible-comprehensive-foreign-policy/): “Together, as the forces of militarism have kept us engaged in unending wars, we have stood arm-in-arm to fight back. We’re not going to invest in never-ending wars.” Also: “Allow Congress to reassert its Constitutional role in warmaking, so that no president can wage unauthorized and unconstitutional interventions overseas.” “Follow the American people, who do not want endless war.” Warren’s foreign policy [topline](https://elizabethwarren.com/issues#a-foreign-policy-for-all): “From endless wars that strain military families to trade policies that crush our middle class, Washington’s foreign policy today serves the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of everyone else.” Also: “A strong military should act as a deterrent so that most of the time, we won’t have to use it. We must continue to be vigilant about the threat of terrorism, but it’s time to bring our troops home – and make sure they get support and benefits they’ve earned.” And “That means cutting our bloated defense budget and ending the stranglehold of defense contractors on our military policy.” Took me all of 30 seconds. Doesn’t seem like pulling teeth to me – seems like the focus of their foreign policy is opposition to the forever war. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/44 "2019-08-02T18:17:37Z")
Yes they have sections on their websites. Real Kucinichians they are. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/45 "2019-08-02T18:19:31Z")
So who would you prefer, **WillF** – a thoroughly anti-war progressive like Warren or Sanders, or the incompetent, erratic, alternately pro-and-anti-war president we currently have, if that’s what the general election comes down to? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/46 "2019-08-02T18:21:22Z")
The problem I have with Gabbard is that she is being dishonest about leaving the cult she grew up in. This suggests she is still in thrall of a nut, which is a bad trait in a president. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/47 "2019-08-02T18:24:02Z")
What cult? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/48 "2019-08-02T18:42:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What cult? [Some offshoot of the Hari Krishnas](http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/tulsi-gabbard-2020-presidential-campaign.html). Weird stuff. eta: [More here](https://medium.com/@lalitamann/an-insiders-perspective-on-tulsi-gabbard-and-her-guru-e2650f0d09). It’s called The Science of Identity Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/49 "2019-08-02T18:51:33Z")
And is there any evidence that she still follows this cult? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/50 "2019-08-02T19:00:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And is there any evidence that she still follows this cult? From the first article I linked: > [@](#): > > I then reached out to another staffer, who eventually said Tulsi would take questions on religious matters via email, at which point I sent a series of questions regarding Chris Butler, the Science of Identity, the beach gatherings to which Greg Martin had referred, her time in the Philippines, and when, precisely, Tulsi began to identify as Hindu. Tulsi replied with an email that declined to mention Hinduism, Butler, the Science of Identity, the gatherings, or the Philippines. > “My ‘religion,’ ” she wrote, “is my loving relationship with God, and the motivation that springs from that relationship to try my best to use my life in the service of humanity and the planet.” > > **But as late as 2015, in a video still up on YouTube, Tulsi publicly acknowledged her guru-dev to be Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, Chris Butler.** > > No one I spoke to with personal experience of the group, including Tulsi’s aunt, thought it possible that Tulsi Gabbard had somehow left Chris Butler’s sphere of influence, that her thirst for world peace and her persistent concerns about Islam were positions held independent of his counsel. “I don’t think that she is a bad person or in any way malicious,” says Koviak. “Butler’s agenda from way back in the ’70s has always been to have a political hold in some way. Now he has realized his dream through Tulsi Gabbard.” Says Rama Ranson, who maintains the blog [RamaRansonvsthecult.com](http://RamaRansonvsthecult.com), “Her success is Butler’s success.” Bolding mine. That’s all I’ve found. She may be dodging the issue because she doesn’t want to alienate her family, like the second link I posted suggests. Or she might still be in the cult. [Here’s the video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-GLgGw6ujU) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/51 "2019-08-02T19:06:07Z")
The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’ Those people will never push the D button at the ballot box. They’ll always find some unicorn such as Gabbard, Ron Paul, Yang, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson. I just hope like hell useless Gabbard doesn’t run third party to play the spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/52 "2019-08-02T19:11:14Z")
@Czarcasm, steronz: And a little earlier in the same article: > [@](#): > > For many years in Kailua, the Gabbards’ known involvement with the Science of Identity went largely unremarked upon. It took an outsider, a 45-year-old special-education teacher and independent journalist Christine Gralow, who moved to the island just three years ago, to get curious enough to start asking questions. She mapped a web of relationships among devotees. “I had no idea,” she told me, “that this was going to lead me to Tulsi Gabbard.” > > Soon after, she attended a town hall run by Tulsi. It was alarming for her to recognize so many faces from her research, and the whole production felt oddly staged. For what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/53 "2019-08-02T19:19:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > @Czarcasm, steronz: And a little earlier in the same article: > > For what it’s worth. Big thanks to y’all for the info. It now seems to me that a person on the right might want her to win the Democratic Primary because she already comes equipped with a self-destruct button as far as bad PR is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/54 "2019-08-06T01:10:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is defeating Trump a top concern for you? > > Do you believe a candidate with crossover appeal would be best equipped to defeat Trump? > > If yes to both of these, why don’t you care for whom your fellow countrymen might ditch Trump? No and yes, because Trump’s opponent will need to get a few center voters to change their votes. Are progressives going to stay home and let Trump win because their nominee isn’t far enough left? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/55 "2019-08-06T02:01:36Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’ Exactly. Getting support from, say, 2% of Democrats and 1% of Republicans who are basically the crackpots of either party doesn’t encompass “crossover support.” That’s literally the definition of “fringe support.” FFS, Donald Trump has more crossover support than Gabbard. Anyone who thinks Gabbard can beat Trump has no business contributing on matters of American politics. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/56 "2019-08-06T03:44:57Z")
Anyone who would see a reduction in personal affluence if the wars ended should be ignored by society completely. Unfortunately, our society is infested with them. That’s why Gabbard is slandered by so many near DC. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/57 "2019-08-06T03:51:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Exactly. Getting support from, say, 2% of Democrats and 1% of Republicans who are basically the crackpots of either party doesn’t encompass “crossover support.” That’s literally the definition of “fringe support.” > > FFS, Donald Trump has more crossover support than Gabbard. Anyone who thinks Gabbard can beat Trump has no business contributing on matters of American politics. So you are among those who think the best crossover support is on the basis of warmongering and mass imprisonment. I don’t think this is where the Dem party is moving fortunately. As for the religious bigots, thank you for contributions. Perhaps you were also among those blessed with the hidden knowledge of the sooper secret Mooslim Obama. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/58 "2019-08-06T03:55:40Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’ Those people will never push the D button at the ballot box. They’ll always find some unicorn such as Gabbard, Ron Paul, Yang, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson. You’re right, Trump didn’t win running against a rigged system and Sanders gets no support either. We are living the Dream in Clinton’s USA. > [@](#): > > I just hope like hell useless Gabbard doesn’t run third party to play the spoiler. Sounds like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/59 "2019-08-06T08:43:08Z")
So who would you prefer, WillF – a thoroughly anti-war progressive like Warren or Sanders, or the incompetent, erratic, alternately pro-and-anti-war president we currently have, if that’s what the general election comes down to? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058/60 "2019-08-06T08:57:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So who would you prefer, WillF – a thoroughly anti-war progressive like Warren or Sanders, or the incompetent, erratic, alternately pro-and-anti-war president we currently have, if that’s what the general election comes down to? I’d take either over Trump and pray Mitch McConnell held the senate. Not a hard question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crossover-appeal-a-meandering-pro-gabbard-post/838058.md?page=4)