# Crosswalk Empowerment
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 17, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010 "2004-01-17T23:00:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/61 "2004-01-26T03:16:42Z")
> [@](#):
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> The issue is one of common sense, and as the OP stated, he was operating his vehicle in an appropriate manner
It seems to me he should have started slowing down the moment he saw a pedestrian approaching the street at the crosswalk. Feel free to disagree.
> [@](#):
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> or take responsibility for what you do, including not walking out in front of moving vehicles. My 8 year old daughter has been taught to look both ways and make sure cars are stopped before venturing into a roadway. What part of that concept is lost on you?
I’m certainly not claiming that the pedestrian acted properly. Would you like a little extra straw to go with your strawman?
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2004, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/62 "2004-01-26T09:06:00Z")
> [@](#):
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> It seems to me he should have started slowing down the moment he saw a pedestrian approaching the street at the crosswalk. Feel free to disagree.
> [@](#):
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> I’m certainly not claiming that the pedestrian acted properly. Would you like a little extra straw to go with your strawman?
If you believe that the pedestrian acted improperly, then why take issue with the motorist? Regarding excess straw, I have no need of it, but since you’ve been nice enough to offer, here’s a steaming cup of STFU. 😃
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### Author:  [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2004, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/63 "2004-01-26T11:56:34Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#):
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> If you believe that the pedestrian acted improperly, then why take issue with the motorist?
Err, because two wrongs don’t necessarily make a right?
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> Regarding excess straw, I have no need of it,
Apparently so.
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### Author:  [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/64 "2004-01-26T21:26:16Z")
> [@dantheman](#):
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> Wrong. He was not legally required to do anything _until the pedestrian entered the crosswalk._. At THAT point, and that point alone, he must yield. The OP **did** , to the detriment of his brakes.
You have an amazing definition of “right of way”. Minnesota’s definition, btw, is
> [@](#):
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> Subd. 45. Right-of-way. “Right-of-way” means the privilege of the immediate use of highway.
So a pedestrian (in the case where there is no traffic control lights) has the right to enter a crosswalk at any point in time in which it is not impossible for traffic to stop to accomodate him. Which means that if somebody walks up to the curb at a crosswalk, you should stop and let him go, because you’re not going to be through the crosswalk before the pedestrian enters it. It’s up to the pedestrian to wave you through if he’s not going to enter the crosswalk, as the right of way is his.
(to sum up my position on the manner, firstly the OP should have stopped at the crosswalk as soon as he realized the guy was going to cross. Secondly, the pedestrian should have taken his own safety in his hands and crossed behind the OP (while gesturing and yelling obscenities if he must). Thirdly, the OP shouldn’t complain about having to stop abruptly, because he had plenty of time to stop gracefully.)
-lv
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/65 "2004-01-26T23:15:47Z")
PA Motor Vehicle Code (as amended) §3542 (b) _Exercise of care by pedestrian.-No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close as to constitute a hazard._
§3543 (a) _General rule.-Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a crosswalk at an intersection or any marked crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway._
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### Author:  [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/66 "2004-01-27T00:27:32Z")
> [@LordVor](#):
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> So a pedestrian (in the case where there is no traffic control lights) has the right to enter a crosswalk at any point in time in which it is not impossible for traffic to stop to accomodate him. Which means that if somebody walks up to the curb at a crosswalk, you should stop and let him go, because you’re not going to be through the crosswalk before the pedestrian enters it. It’s up to the pedestrian to wave you through if he’s not going to enter the crosswalk, as the right of way is his.
No, it does not mean “if somebody walks up to the curb at a crosswalk, you shoyuld stop and let him go.” The section you quoted means what everyone agrees on - that once the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, he has the right of way. He does **not** have the right of way when he’s merely on the sidewalk.
The primary responsibility of the driver is and always has been to concentrate on the road. The crosswalk is in the road; the sidewalk is not.
In addition, the driver cannot assume that he won’t be “going to be through the crosswalk before the pedestrian enters it.” As I said, it’s often far easier for the pedestrian - who is not in the crosswalk - to wait than it is for a moving vehicle to stop.
> [@](#):
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> (to sum up my position on the manner, firstly the OP should have stopped at the crosswalk as soon as he realized the guy was going to cross.
He did. He stopped when the guy started to cross.
> [@](#):
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> Secondly, the pedestrian should have taken his own safety in his hands and crossed behind the OP (while gesturing and yelling obscenities if he must).
I agree with the first part, but … are you seriously saying it’s sometimes okay to gesture and yell obscenities to a driver? In this day and age, and in most places, that’s pretty unwise - unless you’re armed. Why provoke?
> [@](#):
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> Thirdly, the OP shouldn’t complain about having to stop abruptly, because he had plenty of time to stop gracefully.)
Did he? Since there was no reason to stop until the guy even made a movement toward the crosswalk, I don’t see how he had all this time to stop. It wasn’t a stop sign, after all.
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### Author:  [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crosswalk-empowerment/225010/67 "2004-01-27T05:07:13Z")
> [@LordVor](#):
>
> You have an amazing definition of “right of way”. Minnesota’s definition, btw, is
> So a pedestrian (in the case where there is no traffic control lights) has the right to enter a crosswalk at any point in time in which it is not impossible for traffic to stop to accomodate him. Which means that if somebody walks up to the curb at a crosswalk, you should stop and let him go, because you’re not going to be through the crosswalk before the pedestrian enters it. It’s up to the pedestrian to wave you through if he’s not going to enter the crosswalk, as the right of way is his.
So the OP, or any motorist approaching a crosswalk with pedestirans at or near the curbs should have simply stopped before the crosswalk and waited until the pedestrian either crossed, or looked up from fussing with his dog and waved him through?
> [@](#):
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> (to sum up my position on the manner, firstly the OP should have stopped at the crosswalk as soon as he realized the guy was going to cross. Secondly, the pedestrian should have taken his own safety in his hands and crossed behind the OP (while gesturing and yelling obscenities if he must). Thirdly, the OP shouldn’t complain about having to stop abruptly, because he had plenty of time to stop gracefully.)-lv
???
You must have read a different OP than I did. The OP realized the pedestrian was going to cross at the point at which he was already entering the crosswalk. Agree with “the pedestrian should have crossed behind the OP” but I don’t understand why he would feel the need to gesture if he was paying no attention to traffic and hadn’t even looked up afer messing with his dog, and prior to entering the crosswalk.
And to the third one, again, you must have read a different OP. From the description the OP gave, it was evident that the pedestrian gave NO indications allowing the OP “plenty of time to stop gracefully”.
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