# Cruel and unusual? Breaking Iraqi prisoners with the help of heavy metal and Barney **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 18, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077 "2003-05-18T18:16:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/1 "2003-05-18T18:16:52Z")
Do you think this should seriously be classified inhumane treatment of prisoners? I do. Isn’t this against the Geneva Convention or something? [Psyop: The Love’s Not Mutual The U.S. military is using Metallica and the ‘Barney’ theme song as instruments of coercion in Iraq]([http://www.msnbc.com/news/914527.asp](http://www.msnbc.com/news/914527.asp)) > [@](#): > > Your parents aren’t the only ones who hate your music—some Iraqis hate it, too. U.S. military units have been breaking Saddam supporters with long sessions in which they’re forced to listen to heavy-metal and children’s songs. “Trust me, it works,” says one U.S. operative. ---
**Author:** ![TVGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@TVGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/2 "2003-05-18T18:21:16Z")
It could be worse - they could be forced to wathc Chevy Chase movies back to back. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/3 "2003-05-18T18:24:47Z")
This kind of stuff is pretty normal, I think. Although IANAPWKAWHOALAP. [I Am Not a Person Who Knows a Whole Heck of a Lot About Psyops.] It probably doesn’t violate the Geneva Convention, although come on, USA, Barney? I know these people may have helped Saddam Hussein, but you don’t have to be _that_ cruel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/4 "2003-05-18T18:35:01Z")
I don’t think its fair to classify it as cruel & unusual. We did that here in the US during the Waco fiasco, in Panama when noreiga was on the run and in other hostage situations. It is unusual, but not really inhumane. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/5 "2003-05-18T18:37:03Z")
Slight hijack, but here in the UK it has been found that to deter teen-age vandals in such places as unmanned railway stations you just have to play classical music over the PA system. They just run away. ---
**Author:** ![TVGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@TVGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/6 "2003-05-18T18:39:09Z")
oh no, Python moment coming … resist it … AHHH! \ Run AWAY! Run AWAY! Run AWAY!! \ DRAT! Sometimes I have such a hard time controlling myself. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/7 "2003-05-18T21:03:46Z")
Oh, please, so they have to listen to some heavy metal. If they really wanted to be offensive, they should put on Slayer or Cannibal Corpse. And **Rayne** , that’s interesting. Some of our MARTA (Metro/Subway) here in Atlanta play classical music in the stations, especially the lightly-used ones. I wonder if that has something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/8 "2003-05-18T22:24:31Z")
Anyway, what’s with ‘cruel _and unusual_ punishment.’ I realise that if, say, prison, could be considered cruel, but surely you don’t want anyone saying ‘Well, if we thumbscrew everyone, it _won’t_ be cruel and unusual…’ ?? ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/9 "2003-05-18T22:33:58Z")
I love the military’s choice of music in these situations. Metallica against Saddam’s supporters. Sabbath for Noriega. I seem to recall hearing that Led Zepellin was used somewhere (Waco maybe? Maybe for Noriega?). All this stuff that’s supposed to get the evil-doers to come out weeping in agony. Anyhow, If _I_ was subjected to this “torture” I’d just call up everyone I knew and tell them “I got some bitchin tunes jammin over here. PARTY TIME!” The siege of EnderVille would turn into a rager for the ages. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/10 "2003-05-18T23:51:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ender\_Will \* > \*\*I love the military’s choice of music in these situations. Metallica against Saddam’s supporters. Sabbath for Noriega. I seem to recall hearing that Led Zepellin was used somewhere (Waco maybe? Maybe for Noriega?). All this stuff that’s supposed to get the evil-doers to come out weeping in agony. Anyhow, If _I_ was subjected to this “torture” I’d just call up everyone I knew and tell them “I got some bitchin tunes jammin over here. PARTY TIME!” The siege of EnderVille would turn into a rager for the ages. \*\* Bahaha. “The U.S. Army’s siege continued to be unsuccessful. A small party was seen leaving the compound, but they returned later, screaming ‘More Beer!’ and carrying kegs.” I don’t think I’ll ever forget those U.S. choppers circling that compound Noriega was hiding in while blasting Van Halen. Maybe we should start a Cafe Society thread. “Music To Blast When Conquering A Country”. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/11 "2003-05-19T04:25:22Z")
Oh yeah, baby. Hit them with the good stuff! As per _Mars Attacks!_, it would seem that late night jam sessions with Slim Whitman would be a great mind melter. Children’s sing-along music. Deep dark Country Music. David Hasselhoff. Definitely some David Hasselhoff. Why? It just **sounds** scary. and the big guns (everybody sing along now!); [i"]And Iiiii-eeee-Iiiii will always love Yoooo-ooo-ooo-oo!"\* ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/12 "2003-05-19T04:30:13Z")
They should try “Kidz Bop” on the Iraqis next. I once saw a guy attack his television when an extended “Kidz Bop” commercial (longer than one minute) was being aired. ---
**Author:** ![censored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/35a633/32.png) [@censored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/censored)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/13 "2003-05-19T04:46:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Maybe we should start a Cafe Society thread. “Music To Blast When Conquering A Country”. \*\* I swear that there has been a thread like that. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/14 "2003-05-19T05:02:32Z")
FOUI checking in: at Waco they played _These Boots Were Made for Walking_ by Nancy Sinatra, over and over, and over… “…_One of these days my boots are gonna walk all over you…_” [sub]Font Of Useless Information[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/15 "2003-05-19T05:14:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeep’s Phoenix \* > \*\*They should try “Kidz Bop” on the Iraqis next. > > I once saw a guy attack his television when an extended “Kidz Bop” commercial (longer than one minute) was being aired. \*\* RYUJIN SMASH TV! RYUJIN MAD! RYUJIN SMASH KIDZ BOP! God, I hate Kidz Bop commercials. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/16 "2003-05-19T05:16:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*FOUI checking in: at Waco they played _These Boots Were Made for Walking_ by Nancy Sinatra, over and over, and over… > > “…_One of these days my boots are gonna walk all over you…_” > > [sub]Font Of Useless Information[/sub] \*\* I remember that. I think they also blasted obnoxious sounds like the “telephone off the hook” noise, the squeals of rabbits in pain, etc. PsyOps is cool. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/17 "2003-05-19T05:19:39Z")
I doubt if the music is used to break them, the music is used to keep them awake for long periods of time. Sleep deprivation has been found to be one of the most, if not the most, successful techniques for breaking a prisoner. It’s not that the prisoner’s will is crushed by it so much that their sense of what reality is gets kind of slippery and vague, and they lose track of what they’re doing and what they want to say, and what they don’t want to say, and they wind up saying it. It’s also a little more reliable than other forms of torture in that the prisoner isn’t consciously telling you what you want to know, but at some level doesn’t really know what he’s saying, so he’s less capable of lying. Compared to the kind of stuff that apparently went on in Saddam’s prisons, sleep deprivation is quite humane, as it does not permanently injure, or really injure at all, the prisoner. It’s still a pretty nasty thing to do to someone, but hardly ranks on the scale of your average Third World prison’s scale of nastiness. I understand this pretty well, as I worked the graveyard shift for a couple of years. I remember sometimes that when doing not-so-complicated tasks I would forget what I was doing and have to carefully retrace my thoughts to figure out what I needed to do next. The brain gets pretty sticky just from staying up late, a couple of days without sleep and I could see things getting REALLY blurry. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/18 "2003-05-19T05:23:12Z")
We had a porn store down the street subjected to an armed robbery, brightly initiated during a vice-squad raid on the place. When the dust settled, all but the robber had exited the place. HPD’s SWAT team moved in with a circle of large speakers and played KIKK (local C&W station) at full blast. This was about '86, so I don’t remember if C&W had turned into weepy rock yet or not. Anyway, the guy held out until almost sunrise and then threw in the towel. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/19 "2003-05-19T05:29:37Z")
Robber must not’ve been from Houston, or he’d be immune. Probably some Yankee. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077/20 "2003-05-19T09:54:36Z")
I seem to recall “Achy Breaky Heart” being used during the siege at Waco. That would’ve broken me in about ten seconds. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cruel-and-unusual-breaking-iraqi-prisoners-with-the-help-of-heavy-metal-and-barney/176077.md?page=2)