# Crusader Kings II (aka O Dear God What Have I Gotten Myself Into...) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 24, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429 "2014-09-24T13:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/101 "2014-10-03T11:45:51Z")
Well, my plan to marry into the Duchy of Moray suddenly went tits-up, when King Gudrod’s daughter was MURDERED on her 16th birthday by the Countess of Mann – doesn’t make any sense, since she didn’t have any claims on that territory. Unless it was revenge for assassinating nearly everyone in House Irving since they had strong claims on my territory…nah, that couldn’t possibly be it. Anyway, my spymaster was apparently in on the plot, since I was able to arrest him w/o penalty; but for some reason, it’s gonna cost -10 opinion with my vassals if I have him executed. (You’d think they’d be more understanding since he schemed to MURDER THE KING’S DAUGHTER, but eh, whatever.) He’s dead meat, of course, but he’s also a bishop vassal, and I haven’t decided who should succeed him yet. For some reason I couldn’t imprison the Countess herself w/o penalty, despite knowing she was behind it, but I did go ahead and swallow the opinion hit from revoking the Count’s title and installing my nephew in his place. Also I initiated a plot to murder the Countess herself, but she had the temerity to die of natural causes before it came to fruition, how utterly unsatisfying. Which brings up a question – how exactly do spymaster missions work? I’m assuming “Built Spy Network” is supposed to increase the power of plots, but all it seems to do is spread rumors like outing nobles as homosexuals and stuff. (Meanwhile, “Steal Technology” doesn’t seem to do squat.) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/102 "2014-10-03T15:12:46Z")
It’s “Study Technology” not “Steal Technology”. It gives you a chance of gaining some number of technology points, which you are free to spend on the technology screen. It only works if the province is actually technologically superior to you. If you’ve stationed your spymaster in a neighboring county, then they’re likely at the same technology level as you, so nothing will be gained. This is especially true if you’re out in the technological hinterlands like Scotland. Put your spymaster in Rome or Constantinople and watch the tech points roll in. Scheme increases the chance of detecting plots against you. You can also discourage vassals from joining factions against you or encourage them to join your faction. Build Spy Network increases assassination chances for, I think, the diplomacy-based assassination attempt. There’s also a chance of accusing a ruler of corruption or blackmailing a homosexual ruler. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/103 "2014-10-03T21:17:55Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Incidentally that map mode is pretty handy for checking the Pope’s opinion of people to see if there’s anyone in the neighborhood he might be willing to excommunicate or grant you a claim on. It’s also handy for planning wars to see if your target’s allies are actually likely to join or not. Thanks for the tips. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/104 "2014-10-04T01:45:07Z")
Speaking of technology, is it ever worthwhile to have your councilors research tech? (Except the court chaplain of course, who is otherwise worthless.) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/105 "2014-10-04T02:58:46Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Speaking of technology, is it ever worthwhile to have your councilors research tech? (Except the court chaplain of course, who is otherwise worthless.) When I played the King of Aragon, I would often ask my Spymaster to study technology in Córdoba. Even though it’s nearby, the Muslims had substantially better tech than any of the other Christians. Stationing the spymaster there would also lift the fog of war in the immediate vicinity, so I could see what the infidels were up to. Also, Córdoba historically had the best steel in the region, so studying tech there worked from a role playing perspective. The court chaplain is, of course, immensely valuable in converting a populace. Can’t have infidels and heretics in your own lands, you know. Even when everyone is Christian (and the right kind of Christian), if you send your chaplain to convince the local bishops that you’re a better guy than the Pope, then they’ll start giving their taxes to you rather than His Holiness. Or maybe you’re in danger of being excommunicated. What’s so bad about that? Well, aside from eternal damnation on your soul, everyone gets a free CB on you. It’s open season on the heretic. But if you send your chaplain to talk to the Big Guy in Rome before that happens, he might like you enough not to do it. If it’s too late, he might still forgive you (after a suitable donation to church coffers, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/106 "2014-10-04T03:28:33Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > It’s “Study Technology” not “Steal Technology”. It gives you a chance of gaining some number of technology points, which you are free to spend on the technology screen. It only works if the province is actually technologically superior to you. If you’ve stationed your spymaster in a neighboring county, then they’re likely at the same technology level as you, so nothing will be gained. This is especially true if you’re out in the technological hinterlands like Scotland. Put your spymaster in Rome or Constantinople and watch the tech points roll in. You can’t do that anymore, they put a distance limit on studying technology. usually your best bet is somewhere in France in you’re in the (modern day) UK now. And it may as well be “steal technology”, if your spymaster is noticed you’ll get a relationship malus and your spy may be imprisoned or executed. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/107 "2014-10-04T03:40:52Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > You can’t do that anymore, they put a distance limit on studying technology. usually your best bet is somewhere in France in you’re in the (modern day) UK now. Damn! That must have changed with _Rajas of India_; I haven’t fired up the game since that DLC was released. And now I wanna go play a Hindu potentate. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/108 "2014-10-04T10:45:14Z")
I have a question about lord mayors and doges. After seizing an Italian city-state, I wanted to keep the town as capital of the county. However, I’m hit by two things : -A -30 relationship penalty with the lord mayor for “wrong government type”. Ok, I can live with that. Maybe patricians don’t like to have a noble boss. -The city seems to be reduced to a fraction of its normal income. So, the the game seems to act as if the “lord mayor” was in fact a count with a wrong type of holding, and seems to apply to him the 75% income penalty (despite the game calling him “lord mayor”). I tried to grant this title to several different persons, including someone who was already a mayor, hoping he would stay this and wouldn’t get the penalty, to no avail. Am I doing something wrong, or is it impossible to have a lord mayor or doge as vassal without getting hit by the 75% “wrong government” income penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/109 "2014-10-04T12:29:52Z")
As far as I know, owning Noble Repiblics just sucks (unless you’re playing as one). ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/110 "2014-10-04T13:08:39Z")
You’ll just have to suck up the “wrong government” malus. There’s no avoiding that. A republic will only become a merchant republic if it’s on the coast; they need to establish trading posts which is only possible with a coastline. If the province is already coastal, then you’ll need to give the patricians time to establish trading posts. Once that gets going, you’ll start making serious bank, even with the penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/111 "2014-10-04T14:09:24Z")
Though really, the best option is burying them under dukes (or kings once you’re an emperor). Your subvassals’ opinion of you doesn’t mean shit. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/112 "2014-10-04T18:54:29Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > You’ll just have to suck up the “wrong government” malus. There’s no avoiding that. A republic will only become a merchant republic if it’s on the coast; they need to establish trading posts which is only possible with a coastline. If the province is already coastal, then you’ll need to give the patricians time to establish trading posts. Once that gets going, you’ll start making serious bank, even with the penalty. In fact, it’s Ancona, so it’s already on the coast. So, I should keep the city as capital? I had renunced to this idea, and intended to transfer the capital to a castle. You’re sure I’m going to make more money this way, despite the apparent 75% malus? Also, I proceed as I tried to : granting the county title to anybody? Nothing peculiar to pay attention to? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/113 "2014-10-04T19:01:14Z")
Something else : it seems to me that it used to be that when a kid was tutored by someone with the highest level of a trait, the child most often received the same trait as the same highest level. And that only the last mentor mattered for this. However, in this game, out of 6 children, all mentored 5 years by myself and 5 years by a courtier/vassal with a trait at the highest level, only one got a highest level of the trait, and two got the _lowest_ level of the trait, the others in between. Am I misremembering, am I very unlucky, or did they change the rules in a patch? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/114 "2014-10-04T19:34:54Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > But what purpose does it serve, in terms of gameplay, to replace one random Count with another random Count? Gameplay? GAMEPLAY?!?! Dear sir, this game is all about role-playing - you’re not in it to win, you’re in it to make things interesting\* :D! - Lest I be accused of haughty prescriptivism, you should of course play in whatever way you find fun :). But personally I do try to at least weakly role-play to my character’s traits and depending on the area I stick to either gavelkind or primogeniture. For example if I’m zealous I’ll sometimes join in far away non-ally realm’s crusades against pagans/Muslims, whether it is to my immediate benefit or not - not stupidly of course ( unless my ruler is a dolt ), but I’ll always consider it. At the end of the day it’s mostly about spreading my dynasty near and far, whether I actually control them or not ( that little ledger tool that shows the members of your dynasty and how many realms they hold is loosely how I measure success ). So under the right circumstances I tend to be pretty comfortable watching my realms disintegrate with partible inheritance. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/115 "2014-10-04T22:16:29Z")
^^^ Fuck that. Convert to Cathar, have a Queen, dominate the world. All day, every day. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/116 "2014-10-04T22:37:56Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > In fact, it’s Ancona, so it’s already on the coast. > > So, I should keep the city as capital? I had renunced to this idea, and intended to transfer the capital to a castle. You’re sure I’m going to make more money this way, despite the apparent 75% malus? > > Also, I proceed as I tried to : granting the county title to anybody? Nothing peculiar to pay attention to? The city probably has the “recently conquered” or “new administration” debuff on it. Also, single counties cannot be merchant republics. The ruler has to have a duchy-level title. This is worth the hassle, trust me. You get to tax the guy at something like 15%, and that counts for ALL his income, including his palace and his trade posts. Also, his trade posts will increase the taxes you get from the regions they’re in. Seriously, there’s a reason why the game arbitrarily limits the number of merchant republic vassals you can have, and it’s because they’re insanely good tax revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/117 "2014-10-04T23:19:42Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > ^^^ Fuck that. Convert to Cathar, have a Queen, dominate the world. All day, every day. 😃 About time the Albigensians succeeded! ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/118 "2014-10-05T05:30:06Z")
Question: Is it truly impossible to take your direct heir out of the line of succession? I’m displeased with Prince Olaf’s failure to produce a son, but he doesn’t appear on the list when I try to select him as a bishop’s successor. Also, my spymasters keep getting murdered – is there a way to help prevent that? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/119 "2014-10-05T05:37:00Z")
Oh, and I figured out how to check opinions between minor characters – right-click their portrait, then right click the face button that appears and that will bring up the option. (Which is another reason I wanna ditch Prince Olaf – everyone hates him, but everyone loves Prince #2! Also, his stats really kinda suck.) ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/120 "2014-10-05T05:48:12Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Oh, and I figured out how to check opinions between minor characters – right-click their portrait, then right click the face button that appears and that will bring up the option. (Which is another reason I wanna ditch Prince Olaf – everyone hates him, but everyone loves Prince #2! Also, his stats really kinda suck.) Whoa, nice! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429.md?page=7)