# Crusader Kings II (aka O Dear God What Have I Gotten Myself Into...) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 24, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429 "2014-09-24T13:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/121 "2014-10-05T06:09:30Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > It’s “Study Technology” not “Steal Technology”. It gives you a chance of gaining some number of technology points, which you are free to spend on the technology screen. It only works if the province is actually technologically superior to you. If you’ve stationed your spymaster in a neighboring county, then they’re likely at the same technology level as you, so nothing will be gained. This is especially true if you’re out in the technological hinterlands like Scotland. Put your spymaster in Rome or Constantinople and watch the tech points roll in. > > Scheme increases the chance of detecting plots against you. You can also discourage vassals from joining factions against you or encourage them to join your faction. Build Spy Network increases assassination chances for, I think, the diplomacy-based assassination attempt. There’s also a chance of accusing a ruler of corruption or blackmailing a homosexual ruler. Study Tech has two major benefits: it allows a chance for an event to fire that allows your spymaster to gain you a bunch of tech points that you can spend on a tech you don’t have, and it allows tech drift (the chance for a province lower in a particular technology to move upward by 10% of an upgrade) from the target county into your capital. Ordinarily, tech drift happens only between adjacent provinces and each of a ruler’s personal demesne counties, but if you put your spymaster in a technologically advanced province (Constantinople is a great bet, as are many Italian and Muslim provinces) your capital can gain technological advances from that province. To pick a good province, go to the tech screen and click on the little map-mode buttons by each technology to see which provinces worldwide have the best of any particular technology. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Speaking of technology, is it ever worthwhile to have your councilors research tech? (Except the court chaplain of course, who is otherwise worthless.) I rarely have my marshal research technology unless I’m also using my spymaster to gain military technologies and I really want to boost the rate that it spreads, or I’ve just moved my capital and I want to encourage tech drift from my old capital into my new one. The chaplain is very useful for converting provinces that aren’t of your religion (though that doesn’t work very well for unreformed Pagans) and useful for buttering up the Pope if you’re Catholic. The economic adviser is best used to increase your income, unless you’re already pretty rich with a large demense, in which case I like to use him to research technology in a county in my personal demesne so that I can improve it even more. If I’m really filthy rich, I’ll use the “decrease local build time” mission, which can allow you to build up a whole county to whatever your technology allows really fast. Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I know that this stuff is really poorly documented and it took me quite a while to figure out. > [@Mosier](#): > > The city probably has the “recently conquered” or “new administration” debuff on it. > > Also, single counties cannot be merchant republics. The ruler has to have a duchy-level title. This is worth the hassle, trust me. You get to tax the guy at something like 15%, and that counts for ALL his income, including his palace and his trade posts. Also, his trade posts will increase the taxes you get from the regions they’re in. Seriously, there’s a reason why the game arbitrarily limits the number of merchant republic vassals you can have, and it’s because they’re insanely good tax revenue. Merchant republic vassals have a much higher income than feudal vassals and greatly inferior levy troops, so that’s your trade-off. Tax them accordingly; set your realm laws to really soak them for money, but don’t require them to give you many troops, since the troops they give you aren’t really worth much anyway. They will certainly hate you, and can be among the most troublesome vassals, but I always find it’s worth it to have a few. Much better, however, are church vassals. They pay almost as much money as city vassals, have somewhat better levies, and don’t arbitrarily hate you in the same way. In past updates, lots of players would try to have exclusively church vassals, as they’re usually pretty easy to manage. Plus, if you’re Catholic, your powerful church vassals have a greatly increased chance of becoming a Cardinal, and thereafter the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/122 "2014-10-05T11:22:41Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > The city probably has the “recently conquered” or “new administration” debuff on it. Yes, you must be right. I had completely forgotten about this. > [@](#): > > Also, single counties cannot be merchant republics. The ruler has to have a duchy-level title. This is worth the hassle, trust me. You get to tax the guy at something like 15%, and that counts for ALL his income, including his palace and his trade posts. Also, his trade posts will increase the taxes you get from the regions they’re in. Seriously, there’s a reason why the game arbitrarily limits the number of merchant republic vassals you can have, and it’s because they’re insanely good tax revenue. Thanks. However, I’m only a duke myself, so it will have to wait. I’ll try it. Maybe I already had a vassal trade republic, but I don’t think so. We’ll see how filthy rich I get. I wanted the town to stay capital for a bit of variety, and also thinking that a lord mayor getting income from a county would probably improve nicely the city over time. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/123 "2014-10-05T12:07:44Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Also, my spymasters keep getting murdered – is there a way to help prevent that? Are you spymasters scheming in your own capital to protect you from plots? If so, I think that’s the reason. People scheming in your court or against someone in your court are trying to take him out first. It seems to me that not letting them scheme in your capital significantly reduces spymasters’ mortality rate (not verified, that’s what I think I noticed). Otherwise, the only way is to have a spymaster with a very high intrigue. Or to be unimportant yourself. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/124 "2014-10-05T12:08:45Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Oh, and I figured out how to check opinions between minor characters – right-click their portrait, then right click the face button that appears and that will bring up the option. (Which is another reason I wanna ditch Prince Olaf – everyone hates him, but everyone loves Prince #2! Also, his stats really kinda suck.) Great tip! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/125 "2014-10-05T16:20:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It seems to me that not letting them scheme in your capital significantly reduces spymasters’ mortality rate (not verified, that’s what I think I noticed). Interestingly, having my spymaster scheme in my capital caused him to uncover plots to kill him before they managed to kill him. YMMV, I guess… Okay, something strange just happened. I finally got around to executing that treacherous bishop, since I was in a position where I could take the opinion hit, and set up Prince Ichabod as his automatic successor – but as soon as Prince Ickie took over, his wife & kids suddenly packed up and moved back to Norway, and they’re no longer married??? (I thought the church frowned on divorce?) Even stranger, Ickie’s former wife is no longer heir to the Duchy of Orkney, that’s passed on to her younger sister. Her kids are still Crovans, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/126 "2014-10-05T17:07:15Z")
I don’t think there’s any way to create a married Catholic bishop. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/127 "2014-10-05T17:11:50Z")
With the Paradox weekend sale winding down, I thought I’d list the major DLC and what they bring to the game. [ol] [li]Sword of Islam - adds the ability to play as a Muslim ruler[/li][li]Legacy of Rome - additional events and decisions for the Byzantine Empire and the Orthodox Church; adds the ability to restore the Roman Empire; adds retinues[/li][li]Sunset Invasion - a non-historic invasion of Aztecs in the west, similar to the historic invasion of Mongols in the east[/li][li]The Republic - lets you play as a Merchant Republic[/li][li]The Old Gods - pushes the start date back to 867; lets you play as a Pagan or Zoroastrian[/li][li]The Sons of Abraham - adds additional gameplay mechanics for the three Abrahamic faiths, such as the College of Cardinals for Catholics; can play as a Jewish ruler as re-establish the Kingdom of Israel[/li][li]Rajas of India - extends the map all the way to India and makes Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain rulers playable[/li][/ol] Note that each DLC was introduced alongside a patch that changed gameplay for everyone, even if you don’t have that DLC. For example, _Sword of Islam_ changed gameplay mechanics and added events and decisions for Muslim rulers; the AI will use these even without the DLC. It’s only if you really want to play as a Muslim ruler do you need the _Sword of Islam_. Perhaps the most notable gameplay change was the addition of Retinues; for that you do need the _Legacy of Rome_ even if you don’t intend to play a Byzantine. There are also various graphical and music DLC that make no difference to gameplay. You might as well pick up _Songs of Yuletide_ as it’s free; as the name suggests, you’ll get some additional songs during Christmastime. Finally, there’s the Ruler Designer, which allows you to create a ruler with customized dynasty, name, appearance, attributes, and coat of arms. Note that the customized appearance and attributes only apply to your initial character. Once the game starts, you’ll have to rely on breeding like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/128 "2014-10-06T03:04:26Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t think there’s any way to create a married Catholic bishop. Fair enough. But why would his former wife & kids be stripped of their inheritance? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/129 "2014-10-06T18:28:46Z")
I’m unclear about something again. “Studying technology” improve spread of technology from the province the advisor is placed in to nearby provinces, or from nearby provinces to the province where he’s placed in? I think the latter, but I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/130 "2014-10-07T00:27:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m unclear about something again. “Studying technology” improve spread of technology from the province the advisor is placed in to nearby provinces, or from nearby provinces to the province where he’s placed in? > > I think the latter, but I’m not sure. Your capital benefits from your spymaster doing the study technology mission. Tech drift is different, and naturally happens between all adjacent counties. The rate at which your tech goes up depends on (among other things) these two factors, which are additive. In addition to all this, your ruler develops tech points which can be spent to “purchase” technology in your capital. This is a completely different way to gain tech, and does not interact with the study technology mission your spymaster does. If anyone is significantly “ahead” in tech, it’s because they’re developing tech points faster than their neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/131 "2014-10-07T06:09:09Z")
I thought the spymaster Study Tech mission gave you a probability of getting technology points; the CKII wiki seems to confirm this. You’re free to spend the tech points as you see fit, like any other tech points. Spending tech points in this manner increases the technology level in your capital, which then diffuses outwards to outer provinces. Other council members can research technology related to their area of expertise, e.g., the Marshal can research military tech. According to the wiki, this increases the rate of technology spread as well as giving you a chance of gaining tech points appropriate to their field. ETA: [http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Council](http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Council) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/132 "2014-10-07T13:09:08Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Your capital benefits from your spymaster doing the study technology mission. Tech drift is different, and naturally happens between all adjacent counties. The rate at which your tech goes up depends on (among other things) these two factors, which are additive. > > In addition to all this, your ruler develops tech points which can be spent to “purchase” technology in your capital. This is a completely different way to gain tech, and does not interact with the study technology mission your spymaster does. If anyone is significantly “ahead” in tech, it’s because they’re developing tech points faster than their neighbors. I wasn’t talking about the spymaster spying activities, but about tech research by your marshall or chaplain in your own lands. And wondering if they should stay in your capital so that tech will spread quicker to nearby provinces, or in nearby provinces so that tech will spread quicker from your capital. I’m not sure which it is. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/133 "2014-10-07T13:27:48Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And wondering if they should stay in your capital so that tech will spread quicker to nearby provinces, or in nearby provinces so that tech will spread quicker from your capital. I’m not sure which it is. I always set councilors to research tech in my capital because that’s how I’ve seen everyone else do it. Though to be honest, the steward always seems to be best used for collecting extra taxes – those occasional bonus tithes are very nice!! ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/134 "2014-10-08T03:14:28Z")
I use my councilors for research mission very rarely - only if they have nothing better to do. It strikes me as most useful when you’ve moved your capital. Say you’ve finally acquired the kingdom you’ve had your eye on. Your current capital is now on the outskirts of the realm. So you move the capital to some place more central. But it’s a technological backwater, so you order your councillors to research tech. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/135 "2014-10-13T20:53:43Z")
Is there any way to cancel a war after being called in as an ally? England’s been bogged down in a civil war for many years, but I can’t figure out how to make peace with the revolters so I can hold feasts and summer fairs again. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/136 "2014-10-14T04:47:43Z")
One side has to surrender, or the casus belli must become invalid, (for example, when the claimant who’s claim is being pressed dies, or when the target of a holy war converts to the attacker’s religion). Also, if the alliance becomes invalid, for example due to your ruler or the ally ruler dying, you will stop participating in the war. Just make sure if you assassinate him, that you won’t be marriage-allied to his heir! ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/137 "2014-10-14T13:11:44Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Just make sure if you assassinate him, that you won’t be marriage-allied to his heir! I love how in this game, assassination’s considered a panacea for nearly everything. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/138 "2014-10-14T22:00:04Z")
Have you tried actually, you know, helping your ally? Usually the way the endless wars happen is that the attacker takes a few holdings but then there’s a big battle and both sides’ levies get depleted to the point that neither can conduct sieges. Since the attacker has some holdings (but doesn’t control the subject of the war) the war score doesn’t automatically count down. If the AI were smart, they would wait until their levies have replenished enough before raising them again, but it isn’t and they instead raise tiny little armies as soon as they can. But that means that you should be able to swoop in with your full levies and liberate the rebel-held holdings and get the war score counter ticking down again. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/139 "2014-10-14T23:38:58Z")
So, the Charlemagne extension was released, and my savegames are CTD-bugged. In fact, obviously, everybody is fighting bugs, and I guess the game won’t be stable until the first patch. First thing I noticed : there’s now a limit to the total number of vassals, and a “Centralization” tab. If your realm is more centralized, you can have more holdings in your demesne, but less vassals (and the other way around). The trade-in for me is 5 vassals less for one direct holding more. Not sure it’s universal. As king of Italy with a very good diplomacy, I can have up to 27 vassals on medium centralization, to give you an idea. So, it’s quite comfortable, but my plan of destroying duchies and keeping counts as direct vassals soon is thwarted. What is weird is that I never do that but I intended to this time around ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429/140 "2014-10-15T03:33:12Z")
For the assassination-happy players [**buddha\_david** , I’m looking at you!], the new patch removes the diplomatic “Assassinate” button in favor of beefing up the assassination plots. Your spymaster can now increase plot power through “Build Spy Network”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crusader-kings-ii-aka-o-dear-god-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/699429.md?page=8)