# Cryptic overlaps **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983 "2021-06-25T03:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1022 "2022-02-11T17:16:36Z")
NERF HERDER (anagram of HER RED FERN) Many things can be taken from a wide river. (6) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1023 "2022-02-11T17:37:31Z")
DERIVE In Denver I taste this - especially in the wine. (7) ---
**Author:** ![Skunkdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skunkdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skunkdog)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1024 "2022-02-11T21:05:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In Denver I taste this - especially in the wine. (7) VERITAS (denVER I TASte) Fringe that rejiggered the slates. (6) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1025 "2022-02-12T08:06:14Z")
> [@Skunkdog](#): > > Fringe that rejiggered the slates. (6) TASSEL (anagram of SLATES) +++++ How often does **Rocketeer** produce screwed-up models? Not very often. (6) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1026 "2022-02-12T12:47:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How often does **Rocketeer** produce screwed-up models? Not very often. (6) SELDOM (models anagram) * * * Take control. Suggest candidate that switched from Democrat to Neutral. (8) ---
**Author:** ![Skunkdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skunkdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skunkdog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1027 "2022-02-12T14:53:44Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Take control. Suggest candidate that switched from Democrat to Neutral. (8) DOMINATE (Nominate becomes dominate, or vice versa) I never pitied them for the lukewarm response. (5) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1028 "2022-02-12T19:26:09Z")
> [@Skunkdog](#): > > I never pitied them for the lukewarm response. (5) Tepid (anagram PITIED - I) ++++++ Tides turn men off (5,5) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1029 "2022-02-14T19:29:06Z")
Hint: Double def Tides | turn men off (5,5) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1030 "2022-02-16T02:33:24Z")
[quote=“Oly, post:1029, topic:944983”] Tides | turn men off (5,5 [/] How about Tide and cheer turn men off (5,5) ---
**Author:** ![Skunkdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skunkdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skunkdog)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1031 "2022-02-16T02:44:46Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Tide and cheer turn men off (5,5) DETERGENTS (DETER, GENTS) The clue probably should have read (10) instead of (5,5) Anastasia’s dad was riddled with rats (4) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1032 "2022-02-16T04:46:20Z")
> [@Skunkdog](#): > > The clue probably should have read (10) instead of (5,5) My understanding of cryptic rules is the second part of a double def is the solution, hence ‘deter gents (5,5)’ is proper. Nevertheless, carry on. > [@Skunkdog](#): > > Anastasia’s dad was riddled with rats (4) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1033 "2022-02-16T05:39:46Z")
> [@Skunkdog](#): > > Anastasia’s dad was riddled with rats (4) Tsar (anagram RATS) +++++ Gun maker forks over grim metric ton (9) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1034 "2022-02-16T11:46:56Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > My understanding of cryptic rules is the second part of a double def is the solution, hence ‘deter gents (5,5)’ is proper. Not always the case. Sometimes the first part can be the solution. “Deter, gents” was the clue and DETERGENTS was the solution, so it should have been 10. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1035 "2022-02-16T11:53:23Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Gun maker forks over grim metric ton (9) REMINGTON (grim + tonne) * * * Salad utensil gets a Pacific Island. (5) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1036 "2022-02-16T13:25:28Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Not always the case. Sometimes the first part can be the solution. “Deter, gents” was the clue and DETERGENTS was the solution, so it should have been 10. Leaving aside whether the solution _should_ be the first part or the second, if it can be either, then why _should_ the solution be DETERGENTS (10) and not DETER GENTS (5,5)? > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Salad utensil gets a Pacific Island. (5) Tonga (TONG gets A) ++++++ Sea salt ruins map collections (7) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1037 "2022-02-16T13:41:30Z")
ATLASES (anagram of SEA SALT) Claims that he was a greater playwright than Shakespeare just won’t wash (4) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1038 "2022-02-16T16:38:01Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Leaving aside whether the solution _should_ be the first part or the second, if it can be either, then why _should_ the solution be DETERGENTS (10) and not DETER GENTS (5,5)? Is “Deter, gents” more common in our language than “detergents?” I really don’t want to debate how cryptic crosswords work, but I think “detergents” is more recognizable as a solution. You shouldn’t base your expertise on just this thread game alone. Check out cryptic puzzles online and work on them. You’ll get a better understanding of the working parts. > **[Play Lovatts Free Online Cryptic Crossword - Updated Daily](https://lovattspuzzles.com/online-puzzles-competitions/daily-cryptic-crossword/)** > > Lovatts Free Online Cryptic Crossword is updated daily. Includes a 7-day Puzzle Archive, Hints & Timer. Learn the rules of the cryptic crossword game. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1039 "2022-02-16T18:31:38Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > “detergents” is more recognizable as a solution. I also don’t want to debate how cryptics work, but isn’t misdirection and avoiding the more recognizable solution part of what makes them challenging, fun and rewarding? > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Claims that he was a greater playwright than Shakespeare just won’t wash (4) Shaw (anagram WASH) ++++++ He was key player on Midwest team (8) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1040 "2022-02-17T04:09:45Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > He was key player on Midwest team (8) HAWKEYES (anagram for “he was key”) +++++ Forty-eight hours before tomorrow was going to be scrambled eggs. (9) ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983/1041 "2022-02-17T04:22:32Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > I also don’t want to debate how cryptics work, but isn’t misdirection and avoiding the more recognizable solution part of what makes them challenging, fun and rewarding? Nope. Just like regular crosswords, the solution should be a commonly understandable word or phrase, barring certain pun themes and gimmicks and such. But when gimmicks enter into a crossword, there are plenty of clues that follow the gimmick so that the gimmick is solvable. No one would drop “DETER GENTS” in casual conversation, or really, any conversation. It’s awkward. I can’t see it ever working as a cryptic answer. And would need a special clue to be in a standard crossword. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cryptic-overlaps/944983.md?page=53)