# Cuba Abandons Communism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690 "2010-09-14T03:10:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/41 "2010-09-15T00:12:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What in hell is the point of a revolution that doesn’t change anything? Well, you get one of those kewl Che t-shirts. And if you’re really lucky, a Che banner, too! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/42 "2010-09-15T01:00:36Z")
Of course you realize, half the lefties on the Board are sobbing into their bankies right now, after your sharp sarcasm dissing our beloved Che. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/43 "2010-09-15T01:05:06Z")
The embargo didn’t work. Now let’s declare that it did, and remove it. Naah, that’s too easy. And it would make too many people happy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/44 "2010-09-15T01:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Of course you realize, half the lefties on the Board are sobbing into their bankies right now, after your sharp sarcasm dissing our beloved Che. [/QUOTE] Sure, but 2/3rds of them only know the man because they have a tee shirt or poster with his silhouette on it (and probably think he’s some sort of Jamacan singer or something). 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/45 "2010-09-15T01:34:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > How did that work out for Charles I of Britain? > > See post #26. Sadly, I don’t not see the relevance. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/46 "2010-09-15T02:08:08Z")
It was 100% joke. No swipe at the lefties. I’ll try better next time! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/47 "2010-09-15T02:38:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My point is that I see a lot of people acting like the embargo is a great wrong that the United States has done to Cuba. That we need to admit our error and move on. > > That has no basis in fact. The United States was the wronged party in this situation. So maybe the Cuban government should step forward and admit its error and offer a public apology for what it did. That would be a big step forward towards ending the embargo. Historically speaking I will have to say that the US is in the wrong here. > **[Property Compensation Claims](http://uscubanormalization.blogspot.com/2009/05/property-compensation-claims.html)** > > US-Cuba thaw may mean compensation for lost assets Created 25/05/2009 - 16:45 SOURCE: AP After 47 years, Mario Sanchez's memory of the house... > [@](#): > > The US negotiated settlements for American property lost to Vietnam’s communist government, to Iran after its Islamic revolution and to Eastern European countries that went communist after World War 2. The impression I got after all these years is that Cuba is the exception because rightists Latin American countries (the good “friends” of the USA in those days) and then Cuban American groups pressured and continue to pressure to demand compensation and no negotiations. What it is clear to me is that that compensation would had been negotiated and still would if knuckleheads in congress would just realize that it is the embargo that kept Castro in power and after, just like the unification of Germany showed, eventually a good number of the people that lost property will have to accept a settlement just to keep the peace inside Cuba and between it and the USA. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/48 "2010-09-15T03:06:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It was 100% joke. No swipe at the lefties. I’ll try better next time! Oh. Well, that’s very different. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/49 "2010-09-15T03:18:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The impression I got after all these years is that Cuba is the exception because rightists Latin American countries (the good “friends” of the USA in those days) and then Cuban American groups pressured and continue to pressure to demand compensation and no negotiations. What it is clear to me is that that compensation would had been negotiated and still would if knuckleheads in congress would just realize that it is the embargo that kept Castro in power and after, just like the unification of Germany showed, eventually a good number of the people that lost property will have to accept a settlement just to keep the peace inside Cuba and between it and the USA. That’s a possibility. I won’t deny that the anti-Castro Cuban community in Florida has an undue influence in American politics. But it’s also possible that the intransigence is coming from Havana. Perhaps Cuba, unlike Iran or Vietnam, has refused to listen to any reasonable offers. After all, Cuba has a lot more motive not to pay than the United States does to refuse payment. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/50 "2010-09-15T03:23:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The impression I got after all these years is that Cuba is the exception because rightists Latin American countries (the good “friends” of the USA in those days) and then Cuban American groups pressured and continue to pressure to demand compensation and no negotiations. What it is clear to me is that that compensation would had been negotiated and still would if knuckleheads in congress would just realize that it is the embargo that kept Castro in power and after, just like the unification of Germany showed, eventually a good number of the people that lost property will have to accept a settlement just to keep the peace inside Cuba and between it and the USA. I’m pretty sure that the Cuban government has consistently refused to negotiate compensation until after the embargo is lifted. And the sticking point isn’t compensation to Cuban-Americans. It’s compensation to Americans and American companies that held property that was appropriated. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/51 "2010-09-15T03:34:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > The impression I got after all these years is that Cuba is the exception because rightists Latin American countries (the good “friends” of the USA in those days) and then Cuban American groups pressured and continue to pressure to demand compensation and no negotiations. What it is clear to me is that that compensation would had been negotiated and still would if knuckleheads in congress would just realize that it is the embargo that kept Castro in power and after, just like the unification of Germany showed, eventually a good number of the people that lost property will have to accept a settlement just to keep the peace inside Cuba and between it and the USA. > > I’m pretty sure that the Cuban government has consistently refused to negotiate compensation until after the embargo is lifted. And the sticking point isn’t compensation to Cuban-Americans. It’s compensation to Americans and American companies that held property that was appropriated. With the exception of the Cuban government consistently refusing to negotiate (very likely I grant you that), that is what I also said. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/52 "2010-09-15T03:48:44Z")
“Hello, is this Mr. Soprano, Mr. Anthony Soprano? Good day, sir, my name is Marvin Buttondown, I’m with the US State Departement…no, sir, no, we have no connection to the FBI…well, do you recall if your grandfather had any business dealings or investments with a Mr. Meyer Lansky?..I don’t understand, sir, you say he was your grandfathers _gumball?_…goombah!..ah, yes, well, its seems several of those investments were made in Cuba…” ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/53 "2010-09-15T03:54:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@aruvqan](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post > > Why not suggest that as a step forward in simplifying and clearing the air in the Middle East, the Palestinians announce that they are renouncing all claims to any territory that Israel has occupied since 1949? > > Because it is not up to the US to have jack shit to do with anything in Israel, our concern is with Cuba, stop being an ass. > > You’re complaining about the United States not being relevant to a post in which the United States wasn’t mentioned. Maybe you should switch to decaf. And why are you dragging Israel into a thread about Cuba and its relations to the US? And I already do drink decaf. Actually I prefer ice water to be honest. Although I do not see what my beverage preferences have to do with Cuba abd the US embargo, unless you are offering me a decaf cubano.😕 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/54 "2010-09-15T06:32:30Z")
Drop the embargo. The USA freely trades with China and Vietnam, so why not Cuba? I think everyone is waiting for the Castro brothers to die. Problem is that these guys wont die. Fidel especially. I think if those two old bastards die off, then the country can be quickly transformed into something else. I think now it is so far into the future, that Fidel just admitted that Communism did not work and it is time to do something else. Cuba really tried Communism for a long time. People’s communes, quotas, everyone works for the State, the elimination of private enterprise and most private ownership. This economic model simply doesn’t work. It’s shit. The Edsel of economic theory that ends up making everyone poor and requires the respective government to restrict the people and repress them to work harder, or do something that is against free will and human nature. Concerning Vietnam and China, the one party state is still there, but the economic strings have been loosened, which has allowed millions of their people to come up from nothing into middle class. If people have money, food, and entertainments, they do not really give a shit who runs the country. If the people are satisfied, then they wont revolt and all the little commisars and dictators keep their job. My concern is that when Cuba opens up that it doesn’t turn into a narco-state like Mexico with most of their population heading to the USA because their government is now anarchist, corrupt and violent (like Mexico!) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/55 "2010-09-17T15:01:37Z")
[quote=“Captain\_Midnight, post:54, topic:553690”] Drop the embargo. The USA freely trades with China and Vietnam, so why not Cuba? That’s what I’ve always wondered. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > My concern is that when Cuba opens up that it doesn’t turn into a narco-state like Mexico with most of their population heading to the USA because their government is now anarchist, corrupt and violent (like Mexico!) N.B.: AFAIK, Mexico does not **produce** drugs – except marijuana, and that can be grown in the U.S. just as easily. Mexico is a “narco-state” because it’s convenient to smuggle cocaine from South America (coca plants won’t grow anywere else but the Andes) into the U.S. (where the market is) through Mexico – nice overland route, border too long for complete interdiction. I doubt it will ever be so convenient to smuggle it through Cuba. If you’re smuggling it in a boat, why not just go around Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/56 "2010-09-17T18:00:02Z")
It really sounds like Cuba is trying to get Chinese Communism, private prosperity under the thumb of State control. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/57 "2010-09-17T19:14:26Z")
I agree with Sam Stone about dropping the embargo now. It does not matter about why the embargo was first set, up, it does not work, and realistically, the property that was taken is never going to be returned - it does not matter if this is officially announced or not, it’s just not gonna happen. Recent events would be good political cover to use this excuse to end it - It does not even matter what Castro said later, as long as this is spun the proper way. However, I also agree with Ravenman. Given the current partisan climate in federal US politics, the Republicans will be against whatever the Democrats propose. Not just “no”, but “HELL NO”. -Fox news would be spinning this idea in the worst possible light. -Talking heads would be brought on that would explain how this Democrat idea would destabilize the Caribbean, Destroy Florida, and give everyone in Des Moines diarrhea. -Glenn Beck would make up some particularly egregious lies, which would be repeated by bloggers until they became the truth. -The various Tea Party groups would mysteriously and suddenly take an interest in Cuba, and organize demonstrations. -Sarah Palin would declare in a speech that “We should protect Cuba because it was one of the founding states of the good ol’ USA!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/58 "2010-09-17T19:41:13Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It really sounds like Cuba is trying to get Chinese Communism, private prosperity under the thumb of State control. Well, there’s no reason for the U.S. to stand in the way of **that,** is there? In fact, I bet a lot of American CEOs already are speculating about what manufacturing jobs they can outsource to Cuba. More convenient than China or Indonesia – the shipping costs are so much lower! And guess where all the tech-support call centers for Spanish-speaking customers are going to ring to . . . ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/59 "2010-09-17T19:51:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sarah Palin would declare in a speech that “We should protect Cuba because it was one of the founding states of the good ol’ USA!” I forget, would that be 57 or 58 states in Obama’s count? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690/60 "2010-09-17T20:04:07Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > Sarah Palin would declare in a speech that “We should protect Cuba because it was one of the founding states of the good ol’ USA!” > > I forget, would that be 57 or 58 states in Obama’s count? Oh ho **flickster** , you witty purveyor of bon mots! However it only works if the intended target of sarcasm is renowned for stupid statements. You forget of course that Ms. Palin can see Cuba from her BACK porch, to see if the giant head of Fidel will come floating over the horizon! And she knows all about Cuba because she reads ALL the magazines and newspapers. ALL of them I tells ya! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuba-abandons-communism/553690.md?page=4)