# Cuban Boy Refugee - Stay or Go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2000, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330 "2000-01-24T15:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/1 "2000-01-24T15:00:00Z")
Why is it debated if the Cuban boy should stay or go? Isn’t he clearly an illegal alien? Funny how all other “boat people” were forced back by the US throughout history…and not just Cubans. Are we more caring because the media has transformed him from another statistic into a person? Why the sudden compassion for one? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/2 "2000-01-24T19:02:00Z")
He should be returned because his surviving parent, who happens to be his legal guardian under Cuban law, is in Cuba. Failure to accept this would be to refuse to grant comity to Cuban law. He is currently (under the wet foot - dry foot policy) I believe subject to deportation, but if the legal guardians of the boy are found to be the relatives in the US, then there likely are special rules under immigration law regarding return of the boy to Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nu_Vo_Da_Da)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/3 "2000-01-24T19:33:00Z")
Under US immigration law, and Cuban who makes it to US waters is granted the legal right to stay in the US(couldn’t send’em back to Castro you know) so the boy(Elian I believe) has a legal right to stay here. Thats really not what the question is however-it’s moreof who gets custody of him. Currently the relatives(of the mother, who interestingly enough wasn’t exactly the primary guardian of Elian-she had limited custody(divorced)-the father was the primary caretaker-)are attempting to keep him in the US. His father on the other hand is trying to get him back home to Cuba. Essentially what we’re seeing here is the power of the cuban anti-castro lobby exerting itself, hopefully he’ll go home soon though. ---
**Author:** ![Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nu_Vo_Da_Da)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/4 "2000-01-24T19:36:00Z")
And as to “boat people”-while Haitian boat people etc etc are often forced to return to their country, Cubans aren’t. This odd policy of “if you make it here you get to stay” has resulted in some interesting/amusing stories as well…such as the coast guard tear gassing cuban boat people in an attempt to keep them out of US territorial waters and so forth. Once they made it into US waters, however, they’re guaranteed not to be returned to Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/5 "2000-01-24T23:01:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Under US immigration law, and Cuban who makes it to US waters is granted the legal right to stay in the US Surely this only applies to people mature enough to make such a decision. In my mind there’s only one way to think of this whole situation. It’s kidnapping - plain and simple. If the situation were reversed, say a woman decided to defect from the US to Cuba, took her child from her husband and died enroute… would we accept this as appropriate? “Oh, but that’s different”, some argue, “the US is a free democracy and the boy will have a much better lifestyle here.” I say, by that kind of argument, let’s just invade Cuba and bring all of their children back here to the “better life”… I personally vow to NOT support any politician that endorses this political crime. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/6 "2000-01-24T23:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by JoeyBlades: > **If the situation were reversed, say a woman decided to defect from the US to Cuba, took her child from her husband and died enroute… would we accept this as appropriate?** Well, for one thing, we wouldn’t let her back into the US. One of the grounds for exclusion is “withholding custody of a U.S. citizen child outside the U.S. from a person with custody of the child.” Do as we say, not as we do eh? ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/7 "2000-01-25T01:32:00Z")
Uhm, the funny bit is that the boy did not make it to US waters. He was picked up in international waters. He has no business here whatsoever… ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/8 "2000-01-25T01:50:00Z")
That’s not correct, Cooper. Elián was rescued and brought ashore by fishermen. It’s only if you’re intercepted by the Coast Guard (or other US government agency) before you reach US territory that you have to go back. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/9 "2000-01-25T03:43:00Z")
I stand corrected. Still, it seems pretty clear to me (and most of Americans who vote at online polls, judging by the online CNN polls) that he should be with his father. I think if the situation were somehow reveresed, marines would have landed a month ago to recover an American child that the Cuban government was holding as a politcal hostage. Really, if you looked at this objectively there is no other way to describe what is happening. The child is a political hostage. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/10 "2000-01-25T14:21:00Z")
ruadh wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, for one thing, we wouldn’t let her back into the US. One of the grounds for exclusion is “withholding custody of a U.S. citizen child outside the U.S. from a person with custody of the child.” ??? The mother, being dead and all in both scenarios… I doubt that this would be a contested issue. Did I miss your point or did you miss mine? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/11 "2000-01-25T14:57:00Z")
Joey - you’re right, I should have worded that differently. We wouldn’t let whoever claimed custody of the child in Cuba (the equivalent of the Miami relatives, in this scenario) enter the country, because by our laws they are illegally holding the child. And the point is that we consider doing so to be such a heinous thing that it is grounds for exclusion, yet we’re allowing our own citizens to do it with Elián. Cooper - The other thing is that, although Cubans who make it to shore are entitled to stay, they still must apply for parole status. They’re guaranteed to get it but they must apply for it. Elián being six years old is not legally capable of signing his own application and the Miami relatives have no legal standing to sign for him. So I’m not sure how this law applies in his case anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/12 "2000-01-25T15:25:00Z")
Ah, he has dry feet, I didn’t know that. Presumably, if he was an orphan, the court would appoint a guardian to make the decision for him. I think that the federal court action filed by the relatives asks that one of them be so appointed. This, of course, ignores the very valid legal status of the father in Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/13 "2000-01-25T19:41:00Z")
Correct, Atty Young. The INS has also rejected the relatives’ asylum petition on the grounds of them not having standing to file it. I haven’t read any of the legal briefs in the custody case but one of the media reports (can’t remember which) stated that the relatives argued for Sr Gonzalez to be denied custody as an unfit parent. And why is he an unfit parent? Because he wants his boy to grow up in Cuba. Not since a child was forcibly removed from his mother in Virginia and custody given to **her** mother, just because the mom’s a lesbian, have I seen such a flimsy definition of “unfit” accepted by a court. ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/14 "2000-01-25T20:35:00Z")
Well so far, not much of a debate here - we’re all in agreement - the boy should go back. Obviously (to us anyway), he belongs with his father. What burns me is how long the process is taking when a decision has been made. The longer he stays here, the harder is might be on him if he does go back, which, perhaps, the Florida relatives may be counting on. I can hear the lawyers now: “Little Elian is part of his U.S family now and wants to be with them; he doesn’t want to be with his father - he’ll be psychologically damaged if he’s forced to go back.” The sooner he’s returned to Cuba, the better for all concerned. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/15 "2000-01-25T23:53:00Z")
One thought about this case has occurred to me: If Elian’s mother had lived, what would have happened? Would she have been able to keep him with her in America, even though the father was the custodial parent? Or would it be the same mess it is now, just with the mother taking the place of the Miami relatives? (By the way, aren’t those actually relatives of the father, not the mother?) As it is, I am appalled by the cynicism of anyone using this 6-year-old child to further a political agenda. Why in God’s name do we still have such an openly hostile relationship with Cuba? Could it be just a bit less of a threat to the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/16 "2000-01-26T00:57:00Z")
If his mother was with him, he would never go back to Cuba. Family courts are biased towards motherhood as it is - if it even ever came to trial a Cuban who refuses to come to the United States would have little chance of convincing a family court judge to award him custody…and I doubt the Cuban government would allow Elian to fly back and forth to satisfy a joint custody settlement. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2000, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/17 "2000-01-26T11:34:00Z")
Point of information only: Does the rule "if you make it to US waters or shore you can remain in the US apply to all peoples? and if not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2000, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/18 "2000-01-26T12:12:00Z")
The boy has to go back to his father and grandparents or else we are kidnapping him. Since when do uncles and cousins have precedence over parents? It can also be said that the mother was making an illegal flight from the jurisdiction of the father. The father’s rights were violated and we are compounding it. HE HAS TO GO BACK TO THE FATHER, THE SURVING LEGAL PARENT. * * * The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2000, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/19 "2000-01-26T15:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by skelton4947: > **Point of information only: Does the rule "if you make it to US waters or shore you can remain in the US apply to all peoples? and if not, why not?** No, only to Cubans. Ever since Castro’s revolution our government has had one immigration policy for Cuba and one for the rest of the world. The US wants to embarrass Castro by encouraging Cubans to leave their country, even risking their lives in the process. End result = lots of drowned Cubans and Castro still firmly in power. If Elián had been a Haitian boy he’d have been sent home within a week - despite Haitians in Haiti being almost inarguably far worse off than Cubans in Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2000, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330/20 "2000-01-27T01:03:00Z")
ruadh > [@](#): > > The US wants to embarrass Castro by encouraging Cubans to leave their country, even risking their lives in the process. So, it’s our fault? Does Castro have any blame here? * * * The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cuban-boy-refugee-stay-or-go/17330.md?page=2)