"Cult" Artists You Don't "Get"...

Cafe Society
101

[QUOTE=Krokodil]
Enjoying one musician over another doesn’t involve “fairness” any more than favoring one football team over another does. Imagine some pissed-off kid saying “If you weren’t so ignorant and closed-minded, you’d love Joey Fatone as much as I do!” and you’ll get the picture.
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You’re free to reject anything you like, but I’m also free to call your criteria for that rejection bogus. Calling an album widely praised for the subtlety and depth of it’s lyrics “witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” is unfair.

You’re dodging the question - what songs on that particular album can be described that way?

102

[QUOTE=Krokodil]
Enjoying one musician over another doesn’t involve “fairness” any more than favoring one football team over another does. Imagine some pissed-off kid saying “If you weren’t so ignorant and closed-minded, you’d love Joey Fatone as much as I do!” and you’ll get the picture.
[/QUOTE]
Laugh Ok, comparing Kate to Joey Fatone? That’s priceless. I have your number now. I’m sorry I bothered.

103

[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
His storied career notwithstanding, I still don’t get that Zimmerman guy, you know, the one who calls himself Dylan.
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I appreciate him as a songwriter and for the influence he has had on other artist, but I’d rather stab myself in the ear with a pencil than listen to him “sing.” I much prefer his songs interpreted by people with actual vocal talent.

I feel the same way about Joni Mitchell, which I gather is an unpopular opinion, but… I love her lyrics, can’t stand her voice.

Kate Bush’s voice is like nails on a chalkboard for me as well. I believe she’s another artist whose songs I’ve enjoyed when sung by others.

I totally do not get Rufus Wainwright at all. I have friends on other message boards who practically worship him, and he just comes across as a whiny little turd to me. I like his dad’s music a lot though. Maybe it’s a generational disconnect.

104

[QUOTE=GargoyleWB]
I’m a long-time SY fan[…]
Their sound didn’t age well, though, and now going back and listening to their albums, I find I hit the skip button on about 50% of their tracks. Their good songs though are still transcendantly thrashin’.
[/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, which Sonic Youth albums do you find yourself skipping 50% of their tracks?

There are a slew of SY albums I find myself mostly skipping (including, unfortunately, most of the last decade + of releases), but Sister/Daydream Nation/Dirty/Goo is a stretch of albums I can listen to front-to-back. Well, okay, I skip the Mike Watt answering-machine track on Daydream Nation. I think those four albums forgive the noisy guitar-noodling they tend to release.

The only other artist I regularly listen to that has a 4-album stretch like that is Prince. And… yeah. (Don’t diss Prince, ever. No one wants to cross the Prince cult. They’re pretty fierce.)

105

[QUOTE=gaffa]
You’re free to reject anything you like, but I’m also free to call your criteria for that rejection bogus. Calling an album widely praised for the subtlety and depth of it’s lyrics “witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” is unfair.

You’re dodging the question - what songs on that particular album can be described that way?
[/QUOTE]

A couple quick caveats, gaffa– I bought (and last listened to) Hounds of Love when it was a new album in 1985, in the vinyl LP format. I haven’t owned a working turntable since 1991 and didn’t enjoy the album enough to buy it as a CD. If you want to discuss the subtlety and depth of specific cuts, you should get together with Equipoise. I’m not bothered by her lyrics so much as her vocal style.

Also, we’re talking about an artist who has recorded with Enya. “Witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” may be a dismissive tag for her, possibly a shallow one, but don’t call it unfair.

The three singles of hers that I have in the collection, “Cloudbusting,” “Wuthering Heights” and “Running Up That Hill,” are as grating and off-putting as I remember. I just listened to them. My earlier snap judgment stands.

Just accept that each of us likes what he likes. I don’t expect to make an Iris DeMent fan out of you, after all.

106

[QUOTE=Princhester]
No, Doolittle is the one I’ve been trying. I’ll give it another go, just for you.
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Try Trompe Le Monde, as well. An underrated album, overall, by Pixies fans, but, along with Doolittle, I’d say it’s their most accessible to new listeners. Fantastic band.

Anyhow, given my musical tastes, everything says that I should be a rabid fan of Husker Du, but, as much as I respect them and see that they’re no doubt a great band, I just cannot seem to get into them. It’s been years since I’ve tried, so maybe I’ll try again.

As for most of the singers mentioned here (Kate Bush, Cohen, Bjork, Waitts), I have to say I love all of them precisely because of the unique timbre of their voices. While I’m not a huge follower of hers, Bjork, in particular, amazes me with the range of sounds she can produce with her voice–she truly uses it like another instrument.

107

I’ve never heard Kate Bush but nothing I’ve read here makes me want to check her music out. I’m afraid I’m just not good enough or smart enough for it, apparently.

108

[QUOTE=Krokodil]
A couple quick caveats, gaffa– I bought (and last listened to) Hounds of Love when it was a new album in 1985, in the vinyl LP format. I haven’t owned a working turntable since 1991 and didn’t enjoy the album enough to buy it as a CD. If you want to discuss the subtlety and depth of specific cuts, you should get together with Equipoise.
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Already am, for going on 27 years.

Now this is a valid criticism. I’ve been dogging you in this thread because you disparaged Kate’s lyrics, while in all probability you didn’t get past her voice to actually listen to her lyrics.

No, Kate and Enya have never worked together. Lumped together, true. But Kate has worked pretty much exclusively with male artists like Peter Gabriel.

It’s unfair because it doesn’t fit any of Kate’s lyrics. Feel free to read through them and prove me wrong.

Again, concentrating on the lyrics - “Cloudbusting” is about Willhelm Reich’s relationship with his son, “Wuthering Heights” is based on the classic novel by Emily Bronte and “Running Up That Hill” is about the inability of men and women to ever truly understand each other. No witches or fairy folk there.

You wouldn’t need to. I’ve seen her in concert a couple of times and Equipoise interviewed her for her radio show. She’s a brilliant songwriter.

109

[QUOTE=gaffa]

No, Kate and Enya have never worked together. Lumped together, true. But Kate has worked pretty much exclusively with male artists like Peter Gabriel.
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Really?

110

[QUOTE=Krokodil]
Really?
[/QUOTE]

Really. That is Enya alone. Kate Bush had nothing to do with it.

Just because someone posts something on the Internet does not make it true. Happy Rhodes has a song that is misidentified as a duet between Kate Bush and Annie Lennox - who have also never worked together.

111

[QUOTE=gaffa]
Really. That is Enya alone. Kate Bush had nothing to do with it.
[/QUOTE]

Also, the name of the song is “Orinoco Flow” not “Sail Away,” as listed on that website.

112

[QUOTE=gaffa]
I love Zevon’s writing as well, but the overall quality of his writing is so high that when he misses, the clunkers really stick out. Tragically “Mr. Bad Example” contains one such clunker:

Whereupon I stole her passport and her wig
And headed for the airport and the midnight flight, you dig?

Really? “You dig?” He couldn’t come up with a better rhyme than that?
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Yeah, you come across that from time to time. But even Zevon at his worst is no worse than average. If he wrote a truly execrable song, I can’t think of it, although there are a handful that I don’t like and I think are mediocre. On the other hand, there are many other popular artists who only have a handful of songs that I think are great.

113

[QUOTE=Princhester]
No, Doolittle is the one I’ve been trying. I’ll give it another go, just for you.
[/QUOTE]

If you’re going to listen to them do it for yourself. I wanted to help you get into them because it sounded like you wanted to.

[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Try Trompe Le Monde, as well. An underrated album, overall, by Pixies fans, but, along with Doolittle, I’d say it’s their most accessible to new listeners. Fantastic band.
[/quote]

I agree about Trompe Le Monde being underrated and was considering recommending it. It’s not hard to find used Pixies albums at Half Price Books or some place like that, especially Bossanova and Trompe Le Monde.

And here’s an early song of theirs I really like: Holiday Song. Ignore the video, I just linked to it for the song.

[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Anyhow, given my musical tastes, everything says that I should be a rabid fan of Husker Du, but, as much as I respect them and see that they’re no doubt a great band, I just cannot seem to get into them. It’s been years since I’ve tried, so maybe I’ll try again.
[/QUOTE]

They didn’t do much for me at first either. The first song of theirs I really got into was Chartered Trips from Zen Arcade. I love the feeling it evokes. I found a video but would recommend that you don’t watch the visual part, not because it’s bad, but because the video has the lyrics and they’re kind of like REM in that they’re more interesting if you listen to the songs before looking at what the actual words are.

Other than that, I’d recommend listening to the album New Day Rising. My favorite song on that one is “The Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill”.
If you do give any of that a listen I’d like to know what you think.

I just thought of another contribution: the graphic novel Jimmy Corrigan. It’s good, but I don’t think it’s as much of a masterpiece as most people seem to think.

114

[QUOTE=gaffa]

It’s unfair because it doesn’t fit any of Kate’s lyrics. Feel free to read through them and prove me wrong.

[/QUOTE]

I’ve been following this little sub-thread and decided to take a look at Kate’s lyrics.

Those are from a song called “Aerial”.

I am not sure what the exact Websters Dictionary definition of “Witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” is but I think the lyrics quoted above fit. I mean seriously, ‘All the birds are laughing. Come on let’s all join in’?

Yep, I am sure Shakespeare would be envious.

Slee

115

[QUOTE=sleestak]
I am not sure what the exact Websters Dictionary definition of “Witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” is but I think the lyrics quoted above fit. I mean seriously, ‘All the birds are laughing. Come on let’s all join in’?

Yep, I am sure Shakespeare would be envious.

Slee
[/QUOTE]

It’s from her (fairly) recent double album. The second CD, “A Sky of Honey” is an album length piece of music, and is meant to encompass one perfect day, and the theme is - indeed - birdsong. If you’re looking for silliness, that’s not the peak - the other CD actually features her singing the digits of pi. But read the whole song cycle and see it in context and it’s no stranger than half the lyrics on “Sgt. Pepper’s”.

Who knows who wrote that song of Summer
That blackbirds sing at dusk
This is a song of colour
Where sands sing in crimson, red and rust
Then climb into bed and turn to dust

116

I hate the bullshit idea that Phish and other such jam bands instantly become entertaining to listen to when you’re high.

No. Being high does not make me enjoy shitty, aimless music. It makes me enjoy music that I like more intensely. It just makes jam band drivel more boring and irritating. Cannabis is not some magical herb that causes divine secrets to become revealed in the music of “moe.” or the String Cheese Incident.

Their stuff is just not musically interesting. It’s so noodly-doodly, just musical masturbation.

117

Just to be fair - I LOVE KaTe Bush, I think her lyrics are amazing and just melt at the sound of her voice, and yet I think “witchy-bitchy-airy-faerie” is a great description! I intend to use it from now on…

“So, what’s Harris Tweed* like?”
“Oh, a girl and her keyboard? - you know, like Tori Amos? Regina Spektor? KaTe Bush?”
“Huh?”
“You know - witchy-bitchy-airy-fairie stuff?”
“Oh!”

  • BTW, check them out - South African band and quite good. I recommend “ode to confusion”, should be on youtube.
118

[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Try Trompe Le Monde, as well. An underrated album, overall, by Pixies fans, but, along with Doolittle, I’d say it’s their most accessible to new listeners. Fantastic band.

Anyhow, given my musical tastes, everything says that I should be a rabid fan of Husker Du, but, as much as I respect them and see that they’re no doubt a great band, I just cannot seem to get into them. It’s been years since I’ve tried, so maybe I’ll try again.

[/QUOTE]

I want to second Trompe Le Monde, the most underrated Pixies album, IMO. In fact, I think it’s better than Doolittle (I think Surfer Rosa is, too - in fact, if it wasn’t for Bossa Nova, I’d call Dollittle their worst. I don’t think it’s much of an album, aside from 2 or 3 excellent songs).

As probably the biggest Husker Du fan around, I’m used to people not being able to get into them. If you want to try, though, I’d say skip Zen Arcade, which is what most fans recommend - even I rarely listen to more than a few songs from the first half of the album (side 3, for those who still remember actual LPs, is damn-near perfect, though). I’d go with Flip Your Wig, which is often overlooked, as it came out a few months after New Day Rising and less than a year after Zen. It’s got their most obviously pop songwriting, though there are some unnecessary instrumentals on side 2. Also maybe try Candy Apple Grey, their major label debut, which for some reason seems to be the easiest way in for non-fans. I’m also happy to make anyone who’s interested a “best of” mix.

119

[QUOTE=Student Driver]
Out of curiosity, which Sonic Youth albums do you find yourself skipping 50% of their tracks?

There are a slew of SY albums I find myself mostly skipping (including, unfortunately, most of the last decade + of releases), but Sister/Daydream Nation/Dirty/Goo is a stretch of albums I can listen to front-to-back.
[/QUOTE]

50% was a hand-wavy statistic…I agree that those 4 albums are a perfect series, there are very few bands I can think of that had 4 back-to-back gems in a series like that. Daydream Nation and Dirty have a few padding filler songs, but otherwise excellent stuff.

It is their follow-up albums that have been disappointing, with only a track or two per album where the magic happens, but everything else seems tired.

I’ve scrubbed their library into a damn fine playlist though.

Oh, and my brush with fame…I bumped into Lee Ranaldo at a Godfather’s Pizza in Seattle in the mid 90’s, said “hi, I um…love your stuff” and stared at my shoes. He smiled and said “cool”.

120

A few years ago I rented an apartment below a very nice young lady who had, shall we say, ‘questionable’ taste in music, and a propensity for playing her stereo loud enough to dislodge parasites. She was such a sweetheart, though - one of those people that you just pray never experiences a more disappointing moment than the untimely demise of a favorite soap-opera character - that I quickly forgot about trying to break her of the noise habit, and instead invested in a set of firing range-quality hearing protection. What did I care, since I’m usually just reading?

Most of the cacophony echoing down from her stereo was run-of-the-mill pap-rock, but two particular bands struck me as being egregiously meritless:

The first was an ensemble called “Four Non-Blondes”. Now, I admit to knowing nothing about this band, apart from the catchy name and the fact that the lead singer wields a voice like an air-raid siren. I imagine that when she participates in outdoor concerts at night, thousands of dead bats drop from the heavens. The music and lyrics might even be stellar, for all I know, but the intoduction of that voice to any song would immediately see me trying to stuff a loaf of bread into each ear.

The second was a group known as “Cowboy Mouth”. Now this is easlily the most “earnest”-sounding band I’ve ever heard, and when I asked a friend who knows everything about modern music, I was surprised to learn that this is a real band with real albums: they sound for all the world like a parody band from a parody of a city - Minneapolis, maybe - providing a soundtrack for a Will Farrell parody vehicle. Did I mention that they’re earnest? Hoo-boy, are they ever earnest.

Don’t take my word for this, people. Please go out and by these groups’ albums, and see how horrible they are for yourselves. :stuck_out_tongue: