# Cult vs. Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117 "2003-12-10T07:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ex\_Machina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/1 "2003-12-10T07:29:28Z")
What is the difference between a cult and a religion? A cult is generally defined as a communal situation with a charismatic leader but isn’t Jesus a charismatic leader? And isn’t the Christian church basically a communal universal religion? Why isn’t Christianity considered a cult? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/2 "2003-12-10T08:14:58Z")
Good PR. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/3 "2003-12-10T08:26:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ex Machina \* > \*\*What is the difference between a cult and a religion? A cult is generally defined as a communal situation with a charismatic leader but isn’t Jesus a charismatic leader? And isn’t the Christian church basically a communal universal religion? Why isn’t Christianity considered a cult? \*\* “Illusion of Perspective.” Oops , sorry. That was your other thread.😃 In this case it’s true though. It would probably be called a religious cult vs. say a Santanic or some other one. Hey, are you picking on religion?☹ ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/4 "2003-12-10T08:27:51Z")
Oops I mean Satanic, I love that band. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/5 "2003-12-10T08:55:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Good PR. \*\* More true than not - money and power help as well… [This page](http://www.spiritwatch.org/cultdef.htm) cites a book which identifies the following: > [@](#): > > \*\*7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP \*\* > > 1. A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority > 2. A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as “the truth” > 3. A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging > 4. A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group > 5. A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members > 6. A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics > 7. A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives Of course, each of those statements could be applied to many mainstream religious groups, depending on your perspective… The page ends with the following summary which may or may not help. > [@](#): > > Cults are organizations that freely use unethical and deceptive techniques to recruit and control members. > Cult groups do not depend solely upon theological and spiritual persuasion to attract converts. Destructive cult groups also utilize sophisticated techniques of actual and literal mind control to deliberately manipulate prospects and new converts. > Cults can and do include groups and organizations that are not typically viewed as cult groups, in the sense that religious overtones do not necessarily have to be present among group members. Grim ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/6 "2003-12-10T08:57:41Z")
Oh, by the way, that site goes on to list Jehovah’s Witnesses and the LDS church as ‘cultic’, so season to taste… Grim ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/7 "2003-12-10T11:10:53Z")
Cult is a word generally used by Christians as a descriptor to discredit anything else that doesn’t resemble their beliefs. Cult members are usually heretical or far removed from the one true faith. The word is wrapped in sinister and diabolical connotations. Another example of Christian intolerence. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/8 "2003-12-10T11:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by devilsknew \* > \*\*Cult is a word generally used by Christians as a descriptor to discredit anything else that doesn’t resemble their beliefs. Cult members are usually heretical or far removed from the one true faith. The word is wrapped in sinister and diabolical connotations. Another example of Christian intolerence. \*\* That paint brush that you use on Christians must be really big. I’m not sure I’ve ever used the word cult until today and I was a Christian for years(still am, sort of) Intolerance is non-denominational. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/9 "2003-12-10T11:39:50Z")
There are four general meanings of the word cult as it is used in American English. 1. as a direct cognate translation of the Latin _cultus_, meaning any well-organized set of religious beliefs.\* In this sense, the various sects and denominations of Christianity and Islam could each be called cults. 2. any religious group with a strong connection to a living or recently-deceased leader. In this case the LDS could be called a cult up until the death of Brigham Young, at which point the direct connection to Joseph Smith was broken. (On the other hand, Christianity would be a cult of Jesus, in this sense, until the death of the first generation of Apostles. Woudn’t this definition irk some fundies?) 3. a nominally religious-based group enforcing control over all aspects of the lives of its adherents in the manner described in the previous posts. This is the definition being used by the site cited by **grimpixie** , but it is not the only valid definition of “cult,” 4. any religious group opposed by various fundie groups. \*Because of #4 and #3, the RCC gets in trouble every once in a while when some idiotic translator does a word-for-word substitution from some Latin document and the church appears to be accusing Judaism or the Orthodox Christians of being mind-control experts. Given the popular meaning that adheres to the word, I think the translations are bad, but if one is reading one of those documents, it should be noted that the RCC includes itself in the definition–and that formal documents use meaning #1. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/10 "2003-12-10T11:40:47Z")
So, my intolerance will not be tolerated? lol I gots my prejudices and so do they. Honestly though, when you’ve heard “Cult” used by Christians in context and according to the definition below, what does it connote to you as a Christian? Does it connote a happy and welcoming Christian Love, a bringing into the fold, a group that has the same credibility and legitimacy as your religion or an exclusionary, judgemental, and discrediting tone, a group who is leading people astray and which should be considered a work of the devil and crushed? I didn’t invent the word, but I’ve heard it used with hateful intention. Cult- 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/11 "2003-12-10T12:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by devilsknew \* > \*\*So, my intolerance will not be tolerated? > lol > I gots my prejudices and so do they. > > Honestly though, when you’ve heard “Cult” used by Christians in context and according to the definition below, what does it connote to you as a Christian? Does it connote a happy and welcoming Christian Love, a bringing into the fold, a group that has the same credibility and legitimacy as your religion or an exclusionary, judgemental, and discrediting tone, a group who is leading people astray and which should be considered a work of the devil and crushed? I didn’t invent the word, but I’ve heard it used with hateful intention. > > Cult- > 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents \*\* It actually might have the same credibility as my religion, since I’m not sure what that is anymore. The first thought that comes to mind with cult is Charles Manson. So I think I probably do have some bias, but would keep it to myself. I think what kind of cult would determine how I react. But deep down inside, my initial response would be “uh-oh, wacko”. Rats, do you have a paintbrush I can borrow. I hate being honest with myself. It keeps getting in the way of being right. Okay your point.☹ But I would at least politely hide my prejudice, which by the way, isn’t related to my religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/12 "2003-12-10T13:12:43Z")
Nah, you’re as right as me. I probably shouldn’t have added “Another example of Christian intolerence.”. I just felt that it was important to the definition of the word as I have sometimes heard it used. My general usage and its personal meaning to me is quite different than the normal definition, because my favorite band is called The Cult. To me “Cult” is usually joyous and powerful or otherwise neutral. I think it is important to expose terminology that has been used by various religions to vilify or discredit other religions and is part and parcel of the riduculous and age old intolerance and politics between religions. It has led to most of the wars of the last two Millenia. Cult is not a word of equation to Christians. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/13 "2003-12-10T13:29:29Z")
I forget who said it, but one definition of “cult” vs. “religion” is that a cult is something you convert to, while a religion is something you’re born into. I’m a converted Catholic, and I’m pretty sure my mother thinks it’s a cult… ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/14 "2003-12-10T14:38:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \* > \*\*I forget who said it, but one definition of “cult” vs. “religion” is that a cult is something you convert to, while a religion is something you’re born into. > > I’m a converted Catholic, and I’m pretty sure my mother thinks it’s a cult… \*\* I’m a Republican. My mother does too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/15 "2003-12-10T15:14:40Z")
I think it is absolutely a matter of perspective. I get a very “cultish” vibe whenever I attend Catholic ceremonies, but feel nothing like that about Baptist congregations, even though I’m inclined to think the Catholic breed of Christian is a little better than Baptists. There’s something vaguely unsettling about hearing everyone chant in response to someone leading the congregation. I feel this way in any event where it happens, from sporting events to demonstrations or whatever, it certainly isn’t just limited to religion. It’s a fuzzy line between “cult” and “religion”, I think. It seems to be one of those divisions that we know when we see. It is hard for me to draw a line formally, but easy for me to intuitively seperate the local diocese from David Koresh. ---
**Author:** ![Joachim\_Pieper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Joachim\_Pieper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joachim_Pieper)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/16 "2003-12-10T16:46:47Z")
I’m pretty sure the catholic church started out as a cult - at least from the perspective of the contemporary authorities. (Pliny describes christianity as a ‘disease’ and a ‘degenerate cult’.) Nowadays we tend to think of cults as those wierd brain-washing jobs. Though the comparisons between modern cult leaders and early christian leaders are quite telling. Maybe we should judge them on their intent - although if it’s malicious we might not know until it’s ‘too late’… Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/17 "2003-12-10T18:18:20Z")
In my opinion every form of religious practice can be painted as a form of “cult”. The same for a variety of other practices. Like for example patriotism. Which on the other hand also can be seen a a form of religion. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![HayekHeyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/45deac/32.png) [@HayekHeyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HayekHeyst)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/18 "2003-12-10T19:03:37Z")
I think cult is is a term of theological abuse (sometimes appropriately) for a young religion whose doctrines and institutional structures have not yet settled down in middle-aged compromises. When a religion starts up, it’s likely to have some kind of charismatic leader, the followers it gets are likely to be fervent (due to charisma, due to the fact that the people who are joining are the type of people who are going out on a limb rather than people who are born into it), and it’s likely to be somewhat paranoid (if you’re preaching anything novel, people probably are persecuting you as a heretic, after all.) It seems to me like most new religions are subversive and fanatical. Like teen-agers and 3rd party politicians. If they’re successful and grow, gaining power, they calm down. I think the politically correct, non-judgemental term is ‘New Religious Movement’ or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/19 "2003-12-10T19:33:56Z")
Bart Simpson: “Church, cult, cult, church, so we get bored somewhere else every Sunday.” ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117/20 "2003-12-10T20:11:16Z")
A “religion” is what _we_ belong to. A “cult” is what _they_ belong to. Simple! 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cult-vs-religion/218117.md?page=2)