# Cultural Appropriation: What's Wrong With It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271 "2015-11-11T05:51:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/121 "2015-11-12T07:00:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If I tell you that every American harbors racist beliefs and prejudice, am I being a racist? That’s not the phrase that was used. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/122 "2015-11-12T12:15:31Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Can you give an example of what one might say to be recognized in your eyes “no different than your average white person”? “You aren’t really black, **monstro**. I bet you’ve never even been to a ghetto. And you speak so well!!” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/123 "2015-11-12T13:26:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If I tell you that every American harbors racist beliefs and prejudice, am I being a racist? I don’t know if you are being a racist, but you are saying “I am a racist”. Providing you are an American, that is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/124 "2015-11-12T14:00:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “You aren’t really black, **monstro**. I bet you’ve never even been to a ghetto. And you speak so well!!” Stunned that you honestly believe that a typical white person would say such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/125 "2015-11-12T16:24:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **MichaelEmouse** , minstrel shows are a clear example of disrespectful cultural appropriation. > > I think modern commercialism promotes a certain degree of disrespect. If something gets a big enough following, it becomes mass-produced, which then cheapens and kitsch-ifies it. Suddenly a revered object becomes just another dust-laden tchotchke on Grandma’s break front. I’m not sentimental about anything, so this doesn’t trouble me none. But I can still understand why someone may not want to see a cultural token turned into a Happy Meal toy, especially if everything else about that culture is marginalized or stigmatized. I know the first thing I think of when I think of the Navajo isn’t an actual person or group of people, but those blankets with the funky print you can get at Walmart for $9.99. No one wants their identity reduced to a $9.99 trinket. I don’t think that’s appropriation. At least not as I was introduced to it. I first learned about this “issue” because someone posted an article about how racist and terrible it was for white women to belly dance. Not “dress up as I Dream of Jeannie and flop around stereotypically on a lark” but “went to classes for months, learned everything they could about the cultural basis of belly dancing, and busted their ass to do it well”. I know white women who belly dance. It is a big part of their lives. They get a lot of enjoyment from it, and respect the culture it came from. And to be offended by that, to me, is bullshit. I’ve been exposed to a lot of Hispanic culture in my life. I learned Spanish, I read about the Cuban revolution, Simon Bolivar and the history of Mexico, and I highly respect the culture. As an American, I fully believe Latin American culture is a huge component of “American” culture. And so I make tamales and listen to Buena Vista Social Club and have a pinata at all my kid’s birthday parties. Even though I’m a Midwestern white guy whose ethnicity is Italian and German. I’m not appropriating shit. Hispanic culture is my culture. I grew up with it. Not to the same extent as someone born in Mexico, but to the exact same extent as someone raised in the Midwestern US. And if I weren’t born into it, that doesn’t matter. You don’t stop absorbing culture when you hit puberty. If you learned that you like borscht and polka at the age of 50, you’re not “appropriating” Eastern European culture, you’re taking part in it, the same as a 50 year old Hungarian. And I don’t see how that changes when you’re taking part in a culture of an oppressed class of people. You’re right that people can be ignorant of other cultures and make light of things other people find extremely important. But I don’t feel like that’s what we’re talking about here. That’s called “insensitivity”. “Piss Christ” or “Elephant Dung Mary” are insensitive, but they aren’t appropriating Catholic culture. Blackface and minstrel shows are racist and insensitive, but they aren’t appropriating Black American culture. Eminem “appropriated” black culture. And while many people have their issues with Eminem, mostly they aren’t about him being a white dude participating in black culture. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/126 "2015-11-12T18:26:46Z")
I have to give another vote to “There’s nothing wrong with cultural appropriation”. Sure, if you grab parts of another culture without understanding them, you’re running a high chance of looking like you’re crazy - maybe even malicious if you do it wrong in just the right way. But in a lot of ways, when the larger culture appropriates yours - your culture is _winning_. People have seen something in your culture and said “I like that, let’s try that on for awhile!” Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn’t. An example of cultural appropriation I’m guilty of: I try to stick some part of the Bo Diddley beat in about 1/3 of the songs I write. I don’t think I want to sound black. I think I want to sound like Bo Diddley, who happens to be black. I want to be black about as much as I want to pick cotton like my grandparents did. An example of cultural appropriation of my culture: The Ramones were/are just as famous and popular from south of the Texas border to Tierra Del Fuego than they are in the USA, possibly moreso. Am I offended in the least little bit? Oh hell no! The number of people who might love or copy something without really understanding it the way the original group does is pretty much limitless. Be angry at the sun for setting. Nobody owned Bo Diddley or The Ramones but they themselves. Larger cultural artifacts and ideas really don’t belong to anyone. If something from your culture takes off, be happy. I still wear a cowboy hat because it’s the only hat that I don’t feel like an idiot in (yes, yes, ironically so). If the craze returned, I wouldn’t look askew at the “posers” once. But, all of this is different from ridiculing a culture, which is what the minstrel show\* and its friends end up being. \*And from the department of who’s appropriating who?: Jackie Wilson recorded a tribute album to Al Jolson, where he referred to Jolson in the liner notes as " the greatest entertainer of this or any other era". ---
**Author:** ![bob\_bolger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@bob\_bolger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_bolger)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/127 "2015-11-12T18:34:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If I tell you that every American harbors racist beliefs and prejudice, am I being a racist? No. American isn’t a race, so the prejudice against Americans wouldn’t be racist. Unfortunately, “American” != “white upper middle class Baby Boomer born and raised in the South”. I can see where you could argue that this isn’t racist because you aren’t singling out white people, but specifically white people of a certain age and socio-economic background (I’m not saying I would agree, but I could at least see the distinction). {/But, if this isn’t racist. > [@monstro](#): > > She’s a white upper middle class Baby Boomer born and raised in the South. Of course she’s going to hold some racist beliefs and prejudices. Then its not racist to say “He’s a young, poor, black guy raised in an urban environment. Of course he’s going to be a criminal.”. After all, that’s not saying all black people are criminals, they also have to be young, poor, and “urban”. However, I believe most people would consider that racist. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/128 "2015-11-12T18:55:58Z")
The way these things tend to go is that a foreign cultural element becomes popular among white people, then someone accuses these white people of cultural appropriation, then a certain segment of the white people dutifully worry about it, then it’s back to business as usual. This has recently happened with yoga. Someone wrote a heartfelt article on one of the women’s sites, earnestly worrying about whether she was appropriating Indian culture by doing yoga. I saw some Indian-Americans disparaging rich yuppie yoga studios. But I don’t think there has been a drop in the popularity of yoga in the West. Instead, what I see is white women continuing to practice yoga while “trying to be mindful of the often appropriative aspects of this” as one young woman’s OKCupid profile put it. So it’s OK to keep doing it as long as you worry about it a little! Got it. When it comes to the arts, I think a lot depends on how seriously you are taken as an artist. Any time elements of a foreign culture appear in, say, a Katy Perry performance, people are going to be insulted because they don’t like to see their culture associated with vapid, mass-produced tripe. It’s demeaning just because it’s Katy Perry. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/129 "2015-11-12T20:58:27Z")
> [@treis](#): > > . . . I think using something with enormous symbolic importance as a casual decoration is offensive no matter who does it. The Statue of Liberty on a t-shirt. Offensive. No way. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/130 "2015-11-12T21:34:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Statue of Liberty on a t-shirt. Offensive. > > No way. American flag shirts, crucifix shirts, St. Christopher dashboard statues, I seriously can’t think of a single thing of “enormous symbolic importance” that hasn’t been routinely trivialized that way. It’s just something people have always done. Then again, another thing people have always done is loudly complain about it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/131 "2015-11-12T23:02:35Z")
I’ve always thought that middle-class white kids trying to talk/sing black was kind of tacky, but that it falls pretty short of being a hate crime, mostly because I didn’t mind when Elvis and Janis did it. but also… …There was a time when black musicians played and sang exclusively for black audiences, and they were arguably participating in a closed culture while doing it. Gradually, the top tier of black musicians made the bulk of their money playing for white audiences. Li’l Wayne, like every black musician I know by name today, makes almost all of his fortune off of white teenagers at this point and you can’t make a serious argument that he’s living in a different culture than they are. Country star Jason Aldean dressed up as Li’l Wayne for Halloween? At this point, why shouldn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Bert\_Nobbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bert\_Nobbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bert_Nobbins)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/132 "2015-11-13T16:25:23Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Is it cultural appropriation if a Scotsman does it? It might be worth mentioning that the kilt as worn today was invented in the 1720s by Thomas Rawlinson, a Quaker from Lancashire. That rather complicates matters… See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_kilt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_kilt) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271/133 "2015-11-13T16:46:54Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > I’ve always thought that middle-class white kids trying to talk/sing black was kind of tacky, but that it falls pretty short of being a hate crime, mostly because I didn’t mind when Elvis and Janis did it. but also… > > …There was a time when black musicians played and sang exclusively for black audiences, and they were arguably participating in a closed culture while doing it. Gradually, the top tier of black musicians made the bulk of their money playing for white audiences. Li’l Wayne, like every black musician I know by name today, makes almost all of his fortune off of white teenagers at this point and you can’t make a serious argument that he’s living in a different culture than they are. Country star Jason Aldean dressed up as Li’l Wayne for Halloween? At this point, why shouldn’t he? Weird Al dressed up like the Amish to sing Coolio’s tune with lyrics from Gilligan’s Island. I don’t even know who gets first dibs on calling him out for appropriation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-appropriation-whats-wrong-with-it/737271.md?page=6)