# Cultural fit and job interviews **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567 "2016-01-19T13:08:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/81 "2016-01-21T20:32:46Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I have had a couple of interviews recently that I thought went well. A few days later, they told me I wasn’t a good cultural fit. What does this mean, and how can I avoid it in the future? It means they didn’t like you or felt your co-workers would not like you. There’s nothing you can do about it unless you are doing something egregiously stupid, like showing up to an interview smelling of booze. It does matter. Our company is very friendly, informal, polite, and not at all authoritarian. Performance is expected but overtime expectations are reasonable, and working ridiculous hours is not encouraged. Productivity is important but, because of the nature of the business we are in, ethics are much more important than productivity. On the few occasions we have hired people who didn’t fit with those things it NEVER worked out, irrespective of their skills. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/82 "2016-01-21T20:38:23Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Of course the candidate isn’t owed anything, but they can certainly ask (politely) > > Imagine this conversation… > **Employer:** You didn’t get the job. > **Candidate:** OK. I understand I’m not in consideration. Thank you for taking the time to follow up and let me know, and I do appreciate that. > I’m sure you’re busy, but if you have any time at all to pass on any feedback you have from your perspective on either my skills or suitability for the position or my interview performance, or how otherwise I could do better in my future job search, I would definitely appreciate the benefit of your advice. If I already made the mistake of engaging in this conversation, I would do my level best to not offer any information. I wish it were a different world, but it’s not. And there is a non-zero chance that statements made may be used in a lawsuit so there is low chance of very high costs and very little benefit to having that conversation. I’d gladly have it with friends or in a non-professional setting, but it would be irresponsible to do that as an agent of my employer. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/83 "2016-01-21T23:29:13Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > **Candidate:** OK. I understand I’m not in consideration. Thank you for taking the time to follow up and let me know, and I do appreciate that. > I’m sure you’re busy, but if you have any time at all to pass on any feedback… “Unfortunately, it is company policy to not offer feedback. We wish you the best in your future endeavours.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/84 "2016-01-22T01:13:25Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The time to tell people that is during the interview/hiring process, not in orientation. What’s the point of hiring someone who isn’t willing or able to stay every night until 9? You’ll just have to replace him anyway. We didn’t have to do that from the start, just when they decided to show management how much effort they were putting in. But they did have lots of turnover. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/85 "2016-01-22T04:59:41Z")
I’ve done a fair amount of interviewing for tech companies and cultural fit is very important. It’s sort of a catch-all for non-technical evaluations. We’ve said no for cultural reasons like: 1. Being a jerk. Candidate started argument with female interviewers. 2. Not Agile. Candidate came from Waterfall background. 3. Not self-starter. Smaller companies don’t have enough managers to keep everybody busy so candidates need to be able to figure out what to do on their own. 4. Not passionate. We’d prefer not to hire people who look at engineering as just a job. There are probably other reasons that I’m forgetting. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/86 "2016-01-22T05:20:47Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I do absolutely believe that culture fit is real, it’s a benefit for both the employee and employer to have a good cultural match > > (snipped) > > we’ve gotten a couple bad hires in the past year that are bad hires not because they can’t do the work, but because they just don’t fit. > > (snipped) > > we’ve had people not like the management structure and get really, really vocal about it. Dude, we’re sorry you’d rather have a flatter structure or another level of management, but you started a month ago. The CEO on down is not going to restructure the company for you. Every job I’ve ever had, whether it was in a store, restaurant, office, or hospital, had people who just didn’t belong there. The last paragraph made me think of a pharmacist my old hospital hired a year before she actually started (they had to sell their old house first) and I knew on the 2nd or 3rd day that she was going to be a problematic employee; in short, she wanted our whole 60-person department to change their methods to suit her. At the end of her second WEEK there (yes, week) she went to the boss’ office on Friday afternoon and said she wasn’t going to be coming back. :eek: When he told some of us about it, I said, “Good. I could tell that she was going to be a big troublemaker.” I found out a couple years ago that she bought an independent pharmacy in a nearby small town. That didn’t surprise me, and because she Did Not Play Well With Others, I shudder to think what kind of boss she must be. ---
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/87 "2016-01-22T05:26:41Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > 1. Not Agile. Candidate came from Waterfall background. That one doesn’t sound very “cultural” to me. Isn’t that more of a knowledge/experience issue? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/88 "2016-01-22T06:19:36Z")
> [@c\_carol](#): > > That one doesn’t sound very “cultural” to me. Isn’t that more of a knowledge/experience issue? There are distinct differences in the cultures. Agile is more self-managed, more self-directed teams. When we made the transformation from waterfall to scaled agile, some engineers struggled with the changes. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/89 "2016-01-22T08:19:19Z")
Did you let the candidates know they had to be pro-Agile or did they have to second guess during the interview? Wanting Agile experience is ok: thinking its some deep personality trait is dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/90 "2016-01-22T15:33:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The OP hasn’t been back since early yesterday morning, but this is for him (her?). Hiring teams look for three basic things: can you do the job?, will you do the job?, and will you fit in? > > The first speaks to your skills and experience, and it sounds like you’re qualified. The second speaks to factors like your motivation, eagerness, attitude and integrity. Hard to tell how you did here. How do you think you did here? And the third speaks to your personality and style and communication. The question for you is, did you think the companies (and people you met) were a good fit for you? Interviews are an opportunity for you to interview them, to find out if the company is a place you want to be with for the foreseeable future. Remember that in the interview, you want to check them out. > > You may already be doing this, hard to tell. Good luck in your search. Add to your list from mine: #4. How long will you stay? #5. How much will you cost them? And some ad #6. Are you better than the next person? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/91 "2016-01-22T15:37:01Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The time to tell people that is during the interview/hiring process, not in orientation. What’s the point of hiring someone who isn’t willing or able to stay every night until 9? You’ll just have to replace him anyway. What about people who have family so they just cannot stay until 9? Now you see, this is often why fewer women end up in such jobs because more of them have children and cannot work those hours. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/92 "2016-01-22T16:25:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What about people who have family so they just cannot stay until 9? They should find another job. I’ve had to do this. My previous employer didn’t care about work-life balance; it was expected, if you wanted to get ahead, that you would travel enormously and put in a huge number of hours. That’s just how it worked, and once I had a family it was incompatible with my goals, so I left before my kid’s second birthday. For some people that company’s a great fit because their kids are grown up, or they don’t have kids. Note that I’m male, so it does affect men, too. My current employer doesn’t require that of most people, so it fits well for me, but it has other disadvantages. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/93 "2016-01-22T16:41:07Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > There are distinct differences in the cultures. Agile is more self-managed, more self-directed teams. When we made the transformation from waterfall to scaled agile, some engineers struggled with the changes. Lord, yes. One at my office is used to being the Head of All Engineers, and he really doesn’t like that each engineer is now directed to pull the next piece of work themselves, not to check in with anyone. He also doesn’t like having “his” engineers pulled to help if we’re blocked in another area. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now you see, this is often why fewer women end up in such jobs because more of them have children and cannot work those hours. It’s amazing to me how men never have children in these conversations. I work with guys who have pictures of children on their desk, but these must be fake pictures. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/94 "2016-01-22T16:50:42Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What about people who have family so they just cannot stay until 9? > > Now you see, this is often why fewer women end up in such jobs because more of them have children and cannot work those hours. I’m pretty sure an equal number of men and women have children. I do agree that it is not a good policy on any level, outside of emergencies (which a well-organized company hopefully doesn’t have many of). But another part of fighting for equality is recognizing that men can and should take an equal role in child-raising. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/95 "2016-01-22T17:18:33Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > There are distinct differences in the cultures. Agile is more self-managed, more self-directed teams. When we made the transformation from waterfall to scaled agile, some engineers struggled with the changes. I’d check to see if one of the reasons the person was leaving was that she didn’t like the waterfall culture. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/96 "2016-01-22T17:23:02Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m pretty sure an equal number of men and women have children. > > I do agree that it is not a good policy on any level, outside of emergencies (which a well-organized company hopefully doesn’t have many of). But another part of fighting for equality is recognizing that men can and should take an equal role in child-raising. There was a much higher proportion of men in this place than there is in the place I’m working now. And come to think of it kids and family was not a topic of conversation there, but is here. Lots of people bring their kids to work here during vacations and stuff, we have offices and they are never a problem. (Both men and women do this, by the way.) There I took my kid on bring your daughter to work day, and it was considered very odd. The company is well organized, but the project I was working on wasn’t, and became a famous and expensive disaster, so local group culture might be more important than company culture. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/97 "2016-01-22T17:38:00Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What about people who have family so they just cannot stay until 9? > > Now you see, this is often why fewer women end up in such jobs because more of them have children and cannot work those hours. Then **Voyager’s** workplace would be a terrible fit for them, male or female. My point was that a company that expects employees to work every day until 9 should damn sure tell them that up front. It would save them a lot of time and energy in the hiring process, since for a substantial portion of the population that’s an immediate, non-negotiable dealbreaker. And having your job change from a leave-by-6 to stay-till-9 is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/98 "2016-01-22T17:48:04Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > Did you let the candidates know they had to be pro-Agile or did they have to second guess during the interview? > > Wanting Agile experience is ok: thinking its some deep personality trait is dumb. Like any requirement, none are set in stone. If we had a candidate that was obviously great in all ways but came from waterfall we’d hire her. If the candidate was borderline in many areas then waterfall could be the deciding factor. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/99 "2016-01-22T18:09:55Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > My point was that a company that expects employees to work every day until 9 should damn sure tell them that up front. It would save them a lot of time and energy in the hiring process, since for a substantial portion of the population that’s an immediate, non-negotiable dealbreaker. Damn right. I don’t have kids or a partner, and I expect to be out of there by 4:30 (I start early in the morning). And don’t expect that I won’t “count” early-morning calls with software engineers half a world away, because that’s work, too. (I don’t generally clock-watch, but damn I’m stupid by 5 pm after starting at 7 or 8 am; the days when I have a conference call at 6:15 am, I’m stupid by 2:30.) I’m so lucky that my current job is focused on output and meeting deadlines, not on staying late. Over the summer I clocked many weeks where I worked 60+ hours because of an understaffed project, but I was compensated and thanked for that work. It felt great and made me really like my boss and corporate culture even more. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567/100 "2016-01-22T18:23:07Z")
RE: Agile vs. Waterfall I know what folks are getting at, but I don’t consider agile experience as a must-have. It would be nice, but if the person is otherwise a fit and is willing to learn agile, that’s fine. We do, however, occasionally have issues with people who just can’t leave waterfall behind. They tend to think they are agile but really, they just try to cram waterfall into agile ceremonies. It’s a personality/culture thing, I think. Some people are just not comfortable not planning out a project down to a very detailed level before starting to work on that project. I have one on my team now, and it’s very, very difficult to work with that person. Also - from what I can tell, every company does agile a little differently. Just because person A has agile experience, it doesn’t mean that they do agile the way WE do it. So there’s always a bit of learning curve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-fit-and-job-interviews/743567.md?page=4)