# Cultural grievance is not a governing agenda! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288 "2021-03-05T18:34:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/61 "2021-03-19T15:51:08Z")
538 did an article on this recently. In short, the Republicans are focusing on Dr. Seuss and the Potato Heads because they have nothing else. This is essentially an anti-democratic, anti-governing, political party, and this crap is all they possibly have. > **[Why Attacking ‘Cancel Culture’ And ‘Woke’ People Is Becoming The GOP’s New...](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-attacking-cancel-culture-and-woke-people-is-becoming-the-gops-new-political-strategy/)** > > This is the second in a two-part series on the ideas related to race, status and equality influencing the current political divides in America, you can find par… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/62 "2021-03-19T16:11:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have another take: If we accept the rise of a racialized hard left that seeks to make white people the enemy, you dan ecpect to see the rise of a racializef hard right in opposition. We can certainly see that there is a radicalized hard right, and it is not something that is new. So, by your logic, we can expect to see the rise of a radicalized hard left to oppose it. I agree with you that it is not healthy for a society, but I disagree with you and think that you have cause and effect exactly backwards here. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/63 "2021-03-19T16:18:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have another take: If we accept the rise of a racialized hard left that seeks to make white people the enemy, you dan ecpect to see the rise of a racializef hard right in opposition. Wait; what’s a racialized hard left? ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/64 "2021-03-19T16:48:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wait; what’s a racialized hard left? Anyone answering anything short of anarchists or marxists (and that means advocates of a violent revolution with the specific goal of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat with total control over the means of production) rightly deserves a good bit of ribbing. The extreme and widespread distortion of the Overton Window is a particular pet peeve of mine. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/65 "2021-03-19T16:58:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have another take: If we accept the rise of a racialized hard left that seeks to make white people the enemy, you dan ecpect to see the rise of a racializef hard right in opposition. The few violent radicals on the left include the Black Blok anarchists (I guess anarchists could be considered on the left, but that could be debated), the ELF and ALF, some extremists in PR, (all of whom are pretty much inactive now) and etc. None of whom are _seeking to make white people the enemy._ > **[Far-Left Extremist Groups in the United States](https://www.counterextremism.com/content/far-left-extremist-groups-united-states)** > > Far-left extremism in the United States largely centers around the notion of correcting an injustice but is otherwise broad in its ideological catchment. CEP has profiled 11 far-left movements either previously or currently active in the United... ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/66 "2021-03-19T18:29:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have another take: If we accept the rise of a racialized hard left that seeks to make white people the enemy, you dan ecpect to see the rise of a racializef hard right in opposition. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > We can certainly see that there is a radicalized hard right, and it is not something that is new. So, by your logic, we can expect to see the rise of a radicalized hard left to oppose it. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wait; what’s a racialized hard left? Now I’m not in fact sure whether Sam meant to describe these groups as “racialized” or “radicalized”, although I’m pretty sure (pace MrDibble 😄 ) that he didn’t really mean to call any of them “racializef”. Perhaps he will clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/67 "2021-03-19T19:39:51Z")
And, importantly, these left wing radical groups are marginalized within the left. There aren’t many, if any, prominent politicians or media voices that espouse these views and most Democratic politicians and media voices firmly denounce them Meanwhile, on the right, the radicals have captured large swaths of the US Senate and House of Representatives. Most state governments in conservatives states are controlled by the radical wing. The last President of the US supported the radical right wing agenda. There’s no comparison, really. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/68 "2021-03-19T19:42:54Z")
Right, they are marginalized. But as you pointed out the Reactionary right wing groups now have many congress members and even a ex-president. Not so any of the violent radical left wing groups. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/69 "2021-03-19T22:14:00Z")
So Antifa isn’t radical, extremist or violent? You know, the guys that tried to burn down the Portland courthouse a few days ago? And if you tell me they don’t exist, or that they are ‘just an idea’, I will explain to you how insurgencies and terrorists organize. Hint: ISIS was just an idea - one that killed a few hundred thousand people. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/70 "2021-03-19T22:26:52Z")
[Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa) Not saying I endorse them or anything, I just don’t lose any sleep over what Antifa is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/71 "2021-03-19T22:56:48Z")
So what’s the right-wing plan to win the culture war? And how does voting Republican help us win it? To me it looks like this: Phase 1. Vote Republican. Phase 2. ? Phase 3. The evil woke liberal mob will be defeated! Can someone explain phase 2 to me? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/72 "2021-03-19T22:59:20Z")
Phase 2 is “Enact minoritarian-rule policies for the benefit of Republicans and the wealthy at the expense of others, and distract the voters from your actual agenda by loudly promising Phase 3.” The actual content of Phase 3, of course, has no substantial relation to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/73 "2021-03-19T23:01:02Z")
Do you lose sleep pver the capitol ‘insurrection’? If so, why don’t you lose sleep when another group takes over parts of cities, burns police stations and courthouses, and riots regularly? And wasn’t that an antifa guy who walked up to the Trump supporter and shot and killed him? Michael Reinhoff, the guy who killed the Trump supporter, described himself as a radical anti-fascist, and then later died in a shootout with police. Despite the immediate story of Jan 6 being a ‘right wing extremist armed insurrection’ where a cop was clubbed to death woth a fire extinguisher, it actually turns out that the only person killed was an unarmed woman shot by Capitol police. And it also turns out that the group was not a bunch of organized right wing extremists. Only about 10% were affiliated with the Proud Boys. The rest had no ties to extremist groups, and most were normal people pushed to the edge by financial trouble. Many were small business owners. Oh, and it’s a strange ‘armed insurrection’ where not one single weapons charge was filed against anyone. And just recently the DOJ or FBI said they can find no credible threats against the government from the right, going all the way back to before the election. That hasn’t stopped Democrats from putting a standing army in Washington and surrounding themselves with fences and razor wire. Either they are engaging in a cynical attempt to paint the right as dangerous, or they’ve lost their freaking minds. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/74 "2021-03-19T23:01:11Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Just because they weren’t the group to take power in that particular country doesn’t mean they weren’t a threat. > > They took power in more places, and ultimately killed more people. Places they took power in thanks to the war Hitler started - while allied with the Communists, remember. I’m not saying the Communists were good - only not nearly the threat that the Nazis claimed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/75 "2021-03-19T23:22:31Z")
Thank you for the cite free, largely fact free, transmission from the right wing infotainment complex. Here in the real world, the insurrectionists chanted for the murder of the VP, and bludgeoned numerous cops and ended up killing one, in an attempt to bloodily overturn a lawful and legitimate election. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/76 "2021-03-20T00:08:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do you lose sleep pver the capitol ‘insurrection’? If so, why don’t you lose sleep when another group takes over parts of cities, burns police stations and courthouses, and riots regularly? Because I can recognize the difference between people justifiably upset at rampant racism and unchecked brutality in our police force, and people using violence to change the outcome of a national election when it doesn’t turn out the way they wanted. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And wasn’t that an antifa guy who walked up to the Trump supporter and shot and killed him? Michael Reinhoff, the guy who killed the Trump supporter, described himself as a radical anti-fascist, and then later died in a shootout with police. Michael Reinoehl, not Reinhoff. Can you get at least one name right in this thread? Anyway, it’s not clear what happened between him and Jay Danielson. Both men were armed, and there’s no clear account of how their confrontation started. Reinoehl claimed it was self defense, and had stated that he would turn himself into police, but they shot him instead. For what, I am sure, were absolutely justifiable reasons. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And it also turns out that the group was not a bunch of organized right wing extremists. Only about 10% were affiliated with the Proud Boys. The rest had no ties to extremist groups, and most were normal people pushed to the edge by financial trouble. Many were small business owners. Funny how an attempt to circumvent an election through violence is “normal people pushed to the edge,” but being subjected to decades and decades of racist abuse at the hands of government agents doesn’t get any sympathy if someone throws a rock through the window of a WalMart. I guessing the folks attempting to over throw the American government were just “having a bad day,” eh, Sam? > [@](#): > > Oh, and it’s a strange ‘armed insurrection’ where not one single weapons charge was filed against anyone. [Untrue](https://dcist.com/story/21/01/08/capitol-insurrectionists-charges/). > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And just recently the DOJ or FBI said they can find no credible threats against the government from the right, going all the way back to before the election. [Not just untrue, but bizarrely counterfactual.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/77 "2021-03-20T00:18:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And wasn’t that an antifa guy who walked up to the Trump supporter and shot and killed him? Michael Reinhoff, the guy who killed the Trump supporter, described himself as a radical anti-fascist, and then later died in a shootout with police. > **[‘Straight to Gunshots’: How a U.S. Task Force Killed an Antifa Activist...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/us/michael-reinoehl-antifa-portland-shooting.html?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=ls&utm_campaign=HwnlokaVMX8&utm_content=486358&utm_term=1&siteID=HwnlokaVMX8-gBuTKfJ2fJX3a4p8ttR1bw)** > > New accounts from the scene raise questions about whether Michael Reinoehl, suspected of killing a far-right Trump supporter, pulled out a gun before officers fatally shot him. > Mr. Reinoehl did have a .380-caliber handgun on him when he was killed, according to the county sheriff’s team that is running a criminal homicide investigation into Mr. Reinoehl’s death. But the weapon was found in his pocket. > > An AR-style rifle was found apparently untouched in a bag in his car. > > Five eyewitnesses said in interviews that the gunfire began the instant the vehicles arrived. None of them saw Mr. Reinoehl holding a weapon. A single shell casing of the same caliber as the handgun he was carrying was found inside his car. > Mr. Dinguss said in an interview that officers began jumping out of the vehicles before they had come to a complete stop, and that one of them opened fire immediately, before any commands had been given. Another man who was walking his dog nearby said that a burst of about 10 gunshots began almost immediately after the S.U.V.s came to a halt, and that he did not recall hearing any commands. Mr. Louis, who was on the other side of the scene, some 140 feet from Mr. Reinoehl, also said the police opened fire immediately, without giving any warnings — as did Mr. Smith and Mr. Cutler. > > “There was no, ‘Get out of the car!’ There was no, ‘Stop!’ There was no nothing. They just got out of the car and started shooting,” Mr. Louis said. > > Mr. Smith described it similarly: “There was no yelling. There was no screaming. There was no altercation. It was just straight to gunshots.” Some “shootout”. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/78 "2021-03-20T11:42:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Places they took power in thanks to the war Hitler started - while allied with the Communists, remember. Do you seriously think Stalin would have refrained from seizing control of Poland and the rest of central Europe if the communist coup attempts had been successful, instead of the Nazi takeover? If the Soviet-allied KPD had managed to create a People’s Republic of Germany, all of Europe would have gone red. The only reason France was liberated was that two of the worst regimes in world history were duking it out on the Eastern Front. Make them allies and the Iron Curtain goes to the Atlantic. > [@Voyager](#): > > I’m not saying the Communists were good - only not nearly the threat that the Nazis claimed. The people responsible for the largest mountain of corpses should be treated as seriously as the people responsible for the second largest. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/79 "2021-03-20T18:59:53Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > The people responsible for the largest mountain of corpses should be treated as seriously as the people responsible for the second largest. So, you think Joe McCarthy had a point? That Communists were evil over there doesn’t mean they are a threat over here. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/80 "2021-03-20T19:15:41Z")
Not nearly the threat? The soon to be most powerful economy on earth is run by a communist party. The most genocidal regimes in history were communist. Communism still is naively romanticized in the west. Far left anarchists are tolerated if not implicitly encouraged. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288.md?page=5)