# Cultural grievance is not a governing agenda! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288 "2021-03-05T18:34:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/81 "2021-03-20T23:25:09Z")
Far left anarchists and China have nothing to do with each other. The former are more like the barbarians of old, the latter more like an evil empire. More to the point, the former are extremely small in number and have no influence on the political scene. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/82 "2021-03-21T21:13:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That Communists were evil over there doesn’t mean they are a threat over here. They created ballistic missiles and thermonuclear weapons. > [@Voyager](#): > > So, you think Joe McCarthy had a point? Of course he had a point. And the Weimar Germans’ fears of communist aggression were perfectly reasonable. But those fears did not justify even a single solitary vote for the NSDAP. Likewise, perfectly sensible worries in the US about the A-bomb (soon to be H-bomb) and the very real communist spies who betrayed it and other secrets to the Soviets did not justify repeated civil rights violations. Being against EvilGroup is not, in and of itself, a sign that a person is on Team Good. Far from it. I will repeat that as many times as is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/83 "2021-03-22T01:12:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, instead, they make it about “culture”. That they are the ones that are protecting American values, and that if they are not elected and allowed to work for the wealthiest and most fortunate, then The Cat in the Hat will be murdered by “leftists”. > > Their cultural grievance is all about distracting _from_ their agenda. They certainly don’t want to “solve” it, as then, they would have to run on policy, on their ability to govern, rather than on outrage. That’s one reason that the Republican Party doesn’t have as much policy wonks as the Democrats. They have the things that I mentioned earlier, and then they have cultural faux outrage, and then nothing else. You don’t need healthcare or poverty experts, or labor experts, or climate change experts…or really much of anything, when your agenda is corporate tax cuts. You can just sit back, and keep your base outraged at “The Other”, while your donors are laughing all the way to the bank. One challenge that Biden will have during the next 8 years (I’m being hopeful about 2024) is rebuilding the ability of our federal government to be good at stuff again. Trump tried to hurt everything he touched. He even tried to destroy the Post Office. I don’t envy the job that Biden walked into on January 20. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/84 "2021-03-22T01:29:47Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > Trump tried to hurt everything he touched. He even tried to destroy the Post Office. Well those guys were facilitaitng voting, Republicans will have none of that, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/85 "2021-03-22T01:41:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Many were small business owners. Who gives a fuck? Why do you think that matters in the slightest? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/86 "2021-03-22T01:55:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > (snip) > And just recently the DOJ or FBI said they can find no credible threats against the government from the right, going all the way back to before the election. > (snip) Sam, I would _really_ be interested in hearing more about this. It contradicts every thing I’ve heard from the DOJ, and in my decades in the intelligence community. I can’t find a link, but last year (before the election) NPR interviewed FBI Director Christopher Wray, who said that white supremacist terrorists constituted a threat on a par with Islamic extremist terrorists. I was about to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you were tacitly separating ‘white supremacist’ from ‘right wing’. It’s certainly true that many (most?) right wing people are not white supremacists. But pretty much all white supremacists are right wing. We all have embarrassing friends. But your statement above can’t be blamed on such distinctions. I repeat, I would like to know what element of federal law enforcement has stated that white supremacists do not constitute a security threat. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/87 "2021-03-22T01:56:17Z")
Just pointing out that they weren’t some right-wing militia rabble being caught up in an ‘insurrection’. They were just normal people hit hard by the times, angry and frustrated. You know, like pretty much any other protest-turned-riot. Given that there is still a standing army in Washington over two minths later with no known threats, I believe this is all just theater to smear Republicans in general to justify more surveillance, IRS shenanigans, ‘Operation Chokepoint’ style nonsense, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/88 "2021-03-22T02:31:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And it also turns out that the group was not a bunch of organized right wing extremists. Only about 10% were affiliated with the Proud Boys. The rest had no ties to extremist groups, and most were normal people pushed to the edge by financial trouble. […] > > Just pointing out that they weren’t some right-wing militia rabble being caught up in an ‘insurrection’. They were just normal people hit hard by the times, angry and frustrated. AFAICT nobody is disagreeing that the majority of the mob who attacked the Capitol probably did not have any plans for insurrection or intent to commit criminal acts, and were not organized right wing extremists. However, 1. If “being pushed to the edge by financial trouble” makes you willing to spontaneously participate in a violent attack on the Capitol and the people in it, even if you had no plans to do so when you started out, maybe you’re more “extremist” than you thought you were; and 2. 10% of a several-hundred-person mob of violent attackers being “organized right wing extremists” is still a concerningly large number. And given what [they managed to plan and carry out, and incite the rest of the mob into helping them carry out](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/21/us/capitol-riot-attack-militants.html), I think it’s reasonable to regard them as a potential serious threat. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Given that there is still a standing army in Washington over two minths later with no known threats As you doubtless are aware, [removal of the Capitol fencing is already underway](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/21/politics/capitol-fencing-removed-insurrection/index.html). The National Guard troops currently supplementing the Capitol Police force [were originally supposed to stand down on March 12 but have been requested by USCP to stay longer](https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/975479113/pentagon-extends-national-guard-presence-at-the-capitol): > [@](#): > > The Pentagon has approved a request to continue National Guard support at the U.S. Capitol through May 23, 2021. About 2,300 troops will remain at the Capitol, which is about half the number currently deployed, the Department of Defense said Tuesday evening. > > The National Guard personnel were expected to leave the Capitol on March 12 after remaining there since the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection attempt. But U.S. Capitol Police last week [requested a 60-day extension](https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973310942/capitol-police-warns-of-another-possible-right-wing-attack-on-congress) following intelligence that showed a possible security threat from an identified militia group. Not sure what you mean by “no known threats”, given that one officially reported threat as recently as early March was considered [credible enough to justify canceling a legislative session.](https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973310942/capitol-police-warns-of-another-possible-right-wing-attack-on-congress) (And btw, the entire US has a “standing army” all the time no matter where various parts of it are deployed at any given moment. “Standing army” just means a permanent army maintained and paid irrespective of peacetime or wartime status. The National Guard units at the Capitol are “deployed troops”, but they’re no more or less a “standing army” than all the rest of the US military everywhere.) > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I believe this is all just theater to smear Republicans in general Y’know, Sam, security measures against violent right-wing extremists would not be perceived as in any way “smearing Republicans in general” if Republicans in general had not voluntarily become so cozy with violent right-wing extremists. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/89 "2021-03-22T02:40:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not sure what you mean by “no known threats”, given that one officially reported threat as recently as early March… And the lone gunman caught near the official residence of Kamala Harris on St. Patrick’s Day. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/90 "2021-03-22T03:30:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not nearly the threat? The soon to be most powerful economy on earth is run by a communist party. The most genocidal regimes in history were communist. Communism still is naively romanticized in the west. Far left anarchists are tolerated if not implicitly encouraged. Dude, we’re talking 1934 Germany, not today. My anti-Communism has carried over from my conservative days, and I agree with you about the threat from China. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin is still a communist deep in his icy heart. KGB heads were going to be politically pure. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/91 "2021-03-22T03:39:32Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Of course he had a point. I used Joe McCarthy for a reason. Alger Hiss was guilty. Hell, I’ve read Whittaker Chambers’ autobiography. But McCarthy didn’t have any Communists on his list, if he even had a list. But the actual Communists around did not justify what he did. It is quite similar to those who claim antiFa is as big or a bigger threat than the right wing insurrectionists. Sam seemed to be claiming a massive left wing violent faction, still unjustified. That’s the part like the Nazi’s building up the Communists. The Weimar government was justified in putting down anything real. But the reaction should be proportional to the actual threat, not a threat magnified by those eager to gain more power. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/92 "2021-03-22T06:04:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Just pointing out that they weren’t some right-wing militia rabble being caught up in an ‘insurrection’. Yes, for God’s sake, people, these were _small business owners!_ It wasn’t some blue collar rabble, these people were _middle class_! Seriously, **Sam** , who do you think makes up the militias? That sort of army cosplay takes time and money. Poor people are too busy working for a living to bother with that. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They were just normal people hit hard by the times, angry and frustrated. Just a large collection of “very bad days,” I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/93 "2021-03-22T19:58:23Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > I always suggest that any time two groups (or proxies for groups) are treated in any way differently, swap the two groups and see if the statement is then offensive. If it is, you’re a -ist making -ist statements. The problem with this strategy is that it ignores the underlying asymmetry of society and power that exists today. Its a standard right wing trope that its unfair that we have black entertainment television and black history month, but that if someone made white entertainment television or white history month they would be called racist. The proper response to that is the same one that parents give to their kids when asked why is there a fathers day and a mothers day but no kids day. Every month is already white history month and every channel is already white entertainment television. Similarly a fully integrated campus will have every dorm be white majority. In order to have blacks enjoy the same experience , that whites all do, of having a living situation where the majority of those around them share their cultural experiences they will need to create that artificially. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wait; what’s a racialized hard left? Well if as Sam Stone says its those people whose actions led to the radical hard right, it is the 69 million Americans who voted a black man to the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/94 "2021-03-22T20:11:41Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > When I hear conservative politicians complain about Dr. Seuss or Mr. Potato Head being “canceled”, or a conservative actor gets fired for expressing their opinion, the question that immediately come to mind is this: What are you, in your capacity as a Senator, going to actually DO about this? > > It’s certainly feasible to amend copywrite law so that abandoned works can be published by other entities. It’s also possible to pass a law against firing employees for their political views (just like it’s illegal to fire someone for their religion). But as far as I can tell, they aren’t proposing any new laws to deal with these alleged problems. They just want to whine on Fox News. They don’t seem to have an actual governing agenda. > > On the other hand, when Democrats complain that the minimum wage is not a living wage, or that healthcare access should be expanded, they actually are proposing legislative actions to address these concerns. The Democrats have an actual platform. They can tell you reasons why you should vote for Democrats. The Republicans have no equivalent platform. They can only tell you reasons why you shouldn’t vote for Democrats. So when Democrats get elected, they go to work on enacting the things they promised. When Republicans get elected, they’ve already achieved their goal; they beat the Democrats. All they can do is start telling people why they shouldn’t vote for the Democrats in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/95 "2021-03-22T20:19:32Z")
Well, some right wing terrorist came to DC to murder Kamala Harris last week, but they got caught. > **[A Man Was Arrested Outside Of Kamala Harris' House With A Rifle & Lots Of...](https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/03/10375853/kamala-harris-house-paul-murray-armed-rifle-arrest)** > > He reportedly said he was going to D.C. “to take care of his problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/96 "2021-03-22T20:20:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Just pointing out that they weren’t some right-wing militia rabble being caught up in an ‘insurrection’. They were just normal people hit hard by the times, angry and frustrated. You know, like pretty much any other protest-turned-riot. That is not what happened. Compare the capitol protesters to the BLM protestors. The BLM people were planning on a peaceful protest in order to further the cause of stopping the police from unjustifiably killing black people. The capitol protesters had gathered for the purpose of overturning a legal election. They had gathered together for the purpose of breaking the law. Every person who showed up at the January 6 protest was there with criminal intent. They either planned on committing a crime or supporting people who were committing a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/97 "2021-03-22T20:31:18Z")
Missed edit window And the extremist Trump supporter that murdered Judge Esther Salas’s son while trying to kill her also had plans to execute Supreme Court Judge Sonia Sotomayer. > **[Judge says gunman who killed her son also targeted Justice Sotomayor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/sonia-sotomayor-esther-salas-60-minutes/2021/02/19/0374cc80-72c7-11eb-93be-c10813e358a2_story.html)** > > U.S. District Court Judge Esther Salas tells “60 Minutes” that authorities found a gun, ammunition and a file on the Supreme Court justice. And don’t forget the right wing supremacists that had a plot to execute Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. > **[6 men indicted in alleged plot to kidnap Michigan governor](https://apnews.com/article/gretchen-whitmer-michigan-indictments-coronavirus-pandemic-traverse-city-10f7e02c57004da9843f89650edd4510)** > > TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. (AP) — A federal grand jury has charged six men with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov... And that’s just in the past six months or so. And frankly, I think all the …boo hoo hoo, the Trump supporters that put up a gallows on the White House lawn with the intent of executing Mike Pence were just frustrated because their small businesses failed just goes to prove that Trump supporters are too stupid to run a successful small business. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/98 "2021-03-22T20:34:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Because it’s part of a trend of academic institutions, politicians, law enforcement, sports teams, corporations etc. capitulating to the demands of an increasingly dangerous ‘woke’ mob. Even foreign nations are beginning to see the dangers of American wokeness. Yes, imagine the dangers from no longer publishing these racist charicatures: > **[Is It Time to Cancel Dr. Seuss Due to Racist Imagery?](https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_all-about-america_it-time-cancel-dr-seuss-due-racist-imagery/6203428.html)** > > Dr. Seuss Enterprises stops publishing 6 of the celebrated author’s children’s books > **[Before Dr. Seuss Was Famous He Drew These Sad, Racist Ads](https://www.businessinsider.com/before-dr-seuss-was-famous-he-drew-these-sad-racist-ads-2012-3)** It’s remarkable how when people complain about stuff like police abuses or voter suppression, conservatives accuse them of being “snowflakes”. But when a company drops the pronoun from the Potato Head line, conservatives suddenly become Oliver Wendell Holmes on Constitutional rights. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/99 "2021-03-22T21:03:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But the actual Communists around did not justify what he did. Which is exactly what I said: > [@Hellestal](#): > > Likewise, perfectly sensible worries in the US about the A-bomb (soon to be H-bomb) and the very real communist spies who betrayed it and other secrets to the Soviets did not justify repeated civil rights violations. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288/100 "2021-03-22T21:24:55Z")
Great article linked below that talks about the differences in the way that that two parties approach big issues, with a real-world example: The Democrats passing the ACA in 2010, and the Republicans being unable to repeal it in 2017. So, when I think about cultural grievance as a tactic, I think it serves a purpose to divert attention away from the GOP’s real agenda (tax cuts, cut regulations). But it’s also resulted in an atrophy in the legislation muscle. The GOP isn’t able to cobble together big-ticket legislation outside of the tax arena. OTOH, the Dems are able to do so on a whole host of issues. Even last year’s but CARES act that was passed in March of 2020 was written by Democrats… One money quote in the article from a Republican operative: “Republicans do Taxes and national security. They don’t do healthcare.”…he forgot to mention that they do cultural grievance. > **[The Real Reason Republicans Couldn’t Kill Obamacare](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/03/why-trump-republicans-failed-repeal-obamacare/618337/)** > > Democrats did the work, Republicans didn’t—and that says a lot about the two parties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultural-grievance-is-not-a-governing-agenda/937288.md?page=6)