# cultures in which people don't line up **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165 "2014-11-20T15:57:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/41 "2014-11-21T14:48:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In my experience, it generally selected for larger, stronger, and more aggressive people rather than people who needed it more. Assholes get a seat in preference to anyone who might be hesitant for any reason, like not wanting to be injured. In the case of buses or trains, missing the current one because you were pushed out of the way didn’t give you a guarantee to get on the next one, either. You would be shoved out of the way by newcomers and never get on unless you adopted the same topics. > > As an American who wasn’t accustomed to shoving people out of the way, the only way I was able to get on trains and buses in Mexico or Guatemala was because I was a head taller and much heavier than almost anyone else in the crowd (although I’m only average height for an American). The only way my girlfriend got on was by holding onto my belt. That was my thought too; I’m usually very successful at these mad scrambles, because I’m big, strong, heavy and tend to get pretty aggressive when confronted with physical situations like this. And there’s no legitimate reason that someone like me should get on the bus first because I’m a bit of a brute, vs. some mildly nebbishy professorial type or some five foot tall/100 lb slip of a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/42 "2014-11-21T15:08:38Z")
Evolutionary pressure? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/43 "2014-11-21T15:10:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Recently I was at one of the tourism information booths in Barcelona to buy some tickets. There were a bunch of people there, mostly Spanish-speaking, some Chinese, some Japanese, a German-speaking family, following the “who’s last” method as it’s just impossible to line up there without cutting up traffic. These two English-speaking girls saw what they probably mistook for a scrum, cut in front and were drily informed by the guy in the booth that “there is a line, you go to the end of it”. They looked around, surprised, into a couple dozen grins and fingers pointing to a space near the person waving that he was last. That was unusual in the amount of nationalities involved and in the guy telling them off, but in stores I see English-speaking tourists not following the “who’s last” rule quite frequently. I think it’s just they’re not used to it, as it doesn’t seem common in English-speaking countries. The “who’s last” method is often used in government offices, customer service at banks, etc. here in Panama. I’ve made that mistake sometimes when I’ve gone into an office where people were sitting around looking bored while the attendant was seemingly doing nothing. They were waiting for their turn with an unseen official in some back office, and everybody know whose turn was next. Sometimes the attendant keeps a list too. ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/44 "2014-11-21T15:36:43Z")
Last year, I was in what felt like a very Canadian line-up. All the tire shops are crazy busy at the beginning of Winter. So I went to Costco an hour before their tire center opened. I was the first one there by a few minutes. It was cold out and I didn’t want to stand next to the door, so I just parked in the nearest spot to wait in the car. As each new person arrived, they just naturally formed a line in adjacent spots about 8 cars deep and then started another row. When the doors opened, everyone just got out of their cars and formed the same line inside. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/45 "2014-11-21T15:44:17Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > Do you refer to the situation of a party joining the one of their number who has held their place in the queue? That’s pretty standard queuing etiquette in Germany (is it not in the UK?), and the people behind may be put out a bit but don’t consider the group having jumped the queue. Yes. It is considered exceptionally rude in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/46 "2014-11-21T16:01:12Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Yes. > > It is considered exceptionally rude in the UK. I haven’t figured out what its status is in the US. It _seems_ to be accepted here in Chicago, although I haven’t been to that many queues that are that long. I do remember a few years ago waiting in line at a local burger place, saving a spot in line for my cousin and his friend, and feeling uncomfortable about doing it. But then saw many of the other groups do it, and when they started seating people about an hour or so later, the host told the crowd that “all members of your group must be here to be seated,” implying to me that having incomplete parties in the line was at least tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/47 "2014-11-21T16:02:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Yes. > > It is considered exceptionally rude in the UK. Quite. It’s not only queue jumping, it’s also cheating which is even worse ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/48 "2014-11-21T16:10:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > … implying to me that having incomplete parties in the line was at least tolerated. That’s my perception in Canada too. It’s tolerated. Often people lining up for ticket sales, or boxing day events will hold a spot for friends. They may even rotate the person holding the position if the wait is many hours long. You may shake your head or feel a little grief if suddenly 30 more people show up in the queue ahead of you before opening, but it’s tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/49 "2014-11-21T17:09:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The “who’s last” method is often used in government offices, customer service at banks, etc. here in Panama. It seems also to be customary in Russia - I have heard the question ‘kto poslednyi?’ several times in situation where there wasn’t room to form a queue. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/50 "2014-11-21T17:46:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That was my thought too; I’m usually very successful at these mad scrambles, because I’m big, strong, heavy and tend to get pretty aggressive when confronted with physical situations like this. > > And there’s no legitimate reason that someone like me should get on the bus first because I’m a bit of a brute, vs. some mildly nebbishy professorial type or some five foot tall/100 lb slip of a girl. But it’s not usually an actual “fists and elbows” battle where brute force is the decisive factor-- at least not in countries where this is norm. More often, it’s a matter of will and social position. In China, it’s generally the oldest, tiniest grannies that end up on the bus first. They tend to be pretty damn assertive, but they also get more accommodation because of their age. In “mad scramble” countries, there is often an internal logic that may not be immediately apparent, but it there. Note that this may not be a fair one-- it’s not uncommon for money (as signified by clothing) to be one of the ways that people take order. But then again, most societies have ways for rich people to skip the line, they are just more likely to be behind closed doors. This is also affected by how strongly a culture divides the “in-group” and “out-group.” In the US, we feel a vague and diffuse sense of responsibility to most everyone. On the flip-side, there are usually some very real limitations to the responsibility we feel towards our “in-group” (family, coworkers, friends.) Putting your parents in a home or kicking your kids out at 18 would be unthinkable in a lot of places, but are relatively routine here. In countries with a strong “in-group,” a person feels much more responsibility toward their in-group. You may be expected to provide housing, money, jobs, etc. to people you have a close relationship to. The flip side of this is that there is a lower sense of responsibility toward the general public. Indeed, it may even be seen as immoral to sacrifice for strangers-- in that moral universe, any small advantage you may have should be used to help your family members. Anyway, I don’t think any one way is better than the other, just that most systems tend to have some kind of internally consistent logic to it. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/51 "2014-11-21T18:40:45Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > A ferry from Stockholm to Denmark? Did such a thing ever exist? You’re probably right it didn’t. I was going from Stockholm to Denmark, but looking at a map, the ferry almost certainly left from some other place in Sweden closer to Denmark. It was back in 1966 though. I don’t recall exactly where it left from. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/52 "2014-11-23T23:00:03Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Anyway, I don’t think any one way is better than the other, just that most systems tend to have some kind of internally consistent logic to it. Aus: Women first, then men, then children. In most other countries, the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/53 "2014-11-24T00:42:52Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Case in point: London. London is different to the rest of the UK when it comes to queuing. We still queue at the post office, supermarket, most places in fact, but we don’t queue for public transport. This was my experience forty years ago. I only found mobs on the Tube quays. Remarkably, the one place I did encounter queues for transport was for the subway in Madrid. My first attempt to go to the movies in Belgium was an experience. A crowd hovered about on the sidewalk, the curtain/blinds/whatever on the ticket booth were opened, and the entire mob surged forward waving cash over their heads, trying to get close enough to exchange money for tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/54 "2014-11-24T01:44:56Z")
The train stations in India are the worst. In fact, in the major cities foreigners aren’t even required to line up. There are (were?) special rooms at the station where they can purchase tickets. However, in the smaller cities, foreigners have to join the crowds. Imagine about 20 windows (marked by destination) and a crowd about 20 people deep in front of each window with _no order at all_. Like others have said, being taller and stronger makes the push to the front a bit easier than you might think, but still the madness of it all makes it a bit unsettling. I was in China in 1985 shortly after the country was opened up to “independent travel”. Lining up to get a train ticket was not difficult. This might have been because at that time China was still a very poor country where few people could afford to travel. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/55 "2014-11-24T03:20:31Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I always thought there was some logic to “mad scramble” philosophy. Lines don’t account for level of want/need. Fuck “want”. A system that accommodates this quite frankly, sucks. If someone can convincingly demonstrate “need”, I’ll gladly let them in front of me. And I suspect that queuing accommodates need as well as any mad scramble. > [@pulykamell](#): > > I haven’t figured out what its status is in the US. It _seems_ to be accepted here in Chicago, although I haven’t been to that many queues that are that long. I do remember a few years ago waiting in line at a local burger place, saving a spot in line for my cousin and his friend, and feeling uncomfortable about doing it. But then saw many of the other groups do it, and when they started seating people about an hour or so later, the host told the crowd that “all members of your group must be here to be seated,” implying to me that having incomplete parties in the line was at least tolerated. One person holding a place for many? Not really acceptable. A big group allowing one or two to join them? Not really a big deal. Big grey area in the middle. All this IMHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/56 "2014-11-24T04:23:39Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Fuck “want”. A system that accommodates this quite frankly, sucks. If someone can convincingly demonstrate “need”, I’ll gladly let them in front of me. And I suspect that queuing accommodates need as well as any mad scramble. > > One person holding a place for many? Not really acceptable. A big group allowing one or two to join them? Not really a big deal. Big grey area in the middle. All this IMHO of course. It also depends upon the good service being queued for, and whether they’re in the building and standing off to one side (to avoid crowding the queue area) or are off lazing around somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/57 "2014-11-24T05:09:16Z")
baby ducks line up automatically. Ducks are a very strong line-forming culture. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/58 "2014-11-24T11:48:07Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I was in China in 1985 shortly after the country was opened up to “independent travel”. Lining up to get a train ticket was not difficult. This might have been because at that time China was still a very poor country where few people could afford to travel. Yeah quite different to my experiences now. Even comparatively small towns have airport-sized train stations, with many windows and queues at least 20 people long at each one. But…it is one situation where people do queue, and everything goes swimmingly until you get to the window, where people _will_ be trying to slide in in front of you (particularly if you don’t look Asian). ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/59 "2014-11-24T15:35:50Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > baby ducks line up automatically. > Ducks are a very strong line-forming culture. ↑ ↑ ↑ For the thread win… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165/60 "2014-11-24T15:38:51Z")
> [@Limitless](#): > > Lol this is funny to me because I’m Nigerian and orderly lines are pretty much unheard of over there and experiencing shortages has come to be a way of life for us, so, sounds legit. And in most of Africa, for that matter. Airports are chaos, in my experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cultures-in-which-people-dont-line-up/705165.md?page=4)