# Cum guzzling gutter sluts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958 "2003-05-08T19:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/21 "2003-05-09T07:22:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\* > Oh, and apparently there’s one other type of woman who likes to hang exclusively with guys – as long as they’re gay guys. I know a girl like that, she hung with the 2-3 gay friends of mine pretty much all the time. According to one of my gay friends, this is actually pretty common, and he refers to them as “fag hags” (his phrase, not mine.) Seems like there’s something a little screwed up about that, and my friend says alot of gay men have pretty low tolerance for it. What _those_ women’s motivations could be, I haven’t a clue. \*\* Fag Hags are actually a well-recognized aspect of ife in gay communities. The article I linked to describes it as a positive experience for the woman involved, but what your friend says more closely matches what I’ve observed in reality. Most gay guys I know (including a fairly close personal friend) don’t have a whole lot of use for women. If they did, they probably wouldn’t be gay. Some border on outright misogyny. To be fair, all the gay men I know are over 30, and came out later in life. the ones I knew in college were much more tolerant. My own opinion on what the benefits to the hag might be is that she gets most of the benefits of friendship with girls, but none of the drawbacks, and also doesn’t have to deal with any sexual tension. I’m no expert, but I think the gay men who don’t like fag hags probably feel they are immature hangers on. They can’t handle the sexual attention of straight men in an adult fashion, so they hide in the company of gays. In this sense, they could be seen to be using their gay friends. And nobody likes to be used. Older gay men are less tolerant of this because, like older people of either gender or orientation, they more aware of manipulation when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/22 "2003-05-09T07:51:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*A girl that manipulative and juvenile has to be trained with carrot-and-stick just like a dog, show her that her ploy won’t work and she won’t repeat it. After all, that’s what she’s trying to do to you, isn’t it? \*\* I would think carrot-and-stick would work better on bunnies. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/23 "2003-05-09T10:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Lizard \* > [BMost gay guys I know (including a fairly close personal friend) don’t have a whole lot of use for women. If they did, they probably wouldn’t be gay. Some border on outright misogyny._\* How extraordinarily sad. Maybe I’m just weird, but with my friends it tends to be person first, gender second. It may be that I more generally shop for clothes with my female friends, and technology with my male friends, but it also happens the other way round. Depending where I’ve lived, sometimes I’ve had nearly all female friends, sometimes nearly all male. It’s just circumstance. Currently, it’s a happy mix of both genders. CGGSs: most that I have met are severely emotionally disturbed, with massive psychologic problems, rock-bottom self-esteem and a history of failed (if not abusive) relationships. And/or they come from less happy backgrounds, with few parental or other examples of open and happy relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/24 "2003-05-09T10:46:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > **…she waits until men are so drunk that they are willing to let her suck their dick.** Okay, okay, it’s time to come clean: I wasn’t really all that drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Zenham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a5b964/32.png) [@Zenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenham)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/25 "2003-05-09T10:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > \*\*I’d lay bets that she loathes herself even more. \*\* Hell, you’d lay _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/26 "2003-05-09T10:59:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*How extraordinarily sad. Maybe I’m just weird, but with my friends it tends to be person first, gender second. > \*\* Maybe you’re just weird. Now, I’m not saying that a person should be defined by their gender _above_ the substance of their character, but I don’t think gender can be so casually ignored when forging friendships. Biologically, we are programmed to notice gender first when we look at someone, and so any interpersonal relationship begins with gender-awareness before we speak a word to the person. I think that men and women, in general, have widely divergent worldviews and interests (in the broader sense of the word, narrow and specific interests of course overlap all the time) and see things through entirely different lenses. It’s not quite like trying to forge a friendship between Jack Chick and the Dalai Lama, but there’s certainly a gap in perspective between men and women that makes forging friendships any deeper than mere casual acquiantance less than easy. As Billy Crystal points out in _When Harry Met Sally_, the sex thing tends to get in the way. Consciously or subconsciously. I find that _some_ guys who have alot of female friends are insecure and have esteem issues, like they don’t feel as if they could be worthy of being with a woman romantically, so they surround themselves with women as friends just to settle for any sort of attention they can get from females. Yeah, you can have acquaintance-level friendships with people of any gender without too much trouble, I’ll give ya that. But it seems that the only serious friendships between men and women are between married or otherwise romantically involved couples. (Rereading this post, I have no idea if the “sex thing” ever gets in the way for homosexuals…I do know one gay man who can’t seem to befriend an attractive young guy without trying to “convert” him, but I myself have a pretty solid friendship with another gay man who sure as heck never tried to “convert” me…maybe it’s just that I’m not his type 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/27 "2003-05-09T11:55:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenham \* > \*\*Hell, you’d lay _anything_. \*\* Oh dear. Would you like some fries with that meaningless outburst? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gazelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Gazelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazelle)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/28 "2003-05-09T11:58:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > \*\ ***Indygrrl** , no matter how much you hate this woman, I’d lay bets that she loathes herself even more. \*\* **kambuckta** , what an astute comment. Sad, really. If I knew “Puke Breath”, I would avoid her at almost any cost. I’m allergic to drama. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/29 "2003-05-09T12:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > How extraordinarily sad. Maybe I’m just weird, but with my friends it tends to be person first, gender second. You’re not weird, **istara**. Well at least not because of that statement, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/30 "2003-05-09T12:08:58Z")
Damn. I could have SWORN this was going to be a spam rant. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/31 "2003-05-09T12:15:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*Damn. > > I could have SWORN this was going to be a spam rant. \*\* Disappointed Jonathan Chance? Then just ring…1900 0500 3221, and we’ll ease your frustrations in three minutes or less…(call cost is $5 per 30 seconds or part thereof. Got your credit card handy??) Bwahahaha 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/32 "2003-05-09T12:31:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*Or some of us just have more in common with men than we do with women. > > I’ve never had a guy friend suggest that everyone go to the bathroom as a group, think that spending a saturday shopping for antique lace wrapped candle holders full of potpourri would be fun, or ask me about some new type of makeup in this month’s Cosmo. > > There are women who spend all their time with men for the ‘safe sexual attention’, but your brush is too broad here. \*\* If you don’t want people in this thread to make generalizations about women who can’t get along with other women, maybe it’s prudent not to make generalizations yourself. I honestly don’t know see you can protest being stereotyped because you don’t like women, yet in the next breath, say that women are all about candle holders and makeup. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/33 "2003-05-09T13:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > **I used to feel sorry for this woman, until she tried to pull some of this shit on me. Now I have no sympathy.** She tried to get you drunk and fellate you? ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/34 "2003-05-09T13:41:53Z")
Hmm, okay, so because a woman doesn’t have a lot of women friends, she’s automatically selfish, whoring around, or otherwise seeking sexual attention? Doesn’t float with me, sister. I never had many female friends, and hung out mostly with guys. That’s what tends to happen when you don’t give a rat’s ass about shopping, talking about boyfriends, watching soap operas or gooey romantic flicks or gossiping and backstabbing. I just never met that many chicks who digged comic books, military equipment, action movies with lots of shooting and chase scenes, martial arts, video games, playing guitar and other typically ‘male’ activities. I’ve said it before, but I do tend to border on misogyny. I say border though, because I don’t actually have a true hatred of women, just a general disdain for the way many women treat each other. The quote posted in the OP is a prime example of why. Now, I’m not condoning the actions of ‘puke breath’, as she truly seems like a reprehensible person, but it’s been my experience that women who don’t like us loners seem to be quite insecure themselves. To say that women who don’t keep a lot of female friends, or many friends in general, are alienating themselves is way off the mark. Rather, I’d say it’s the other way around. Because we don’t care to delve into others personal relationships or spread petty gossip, or even spend hours making remarks on the intentions and behaviors of others, we’re seen as ‘anti-social’. Because we tend to get along well with guys who, for the most part, judge us on a ‘put up or shut up’ basis, we’re seen as confrontational or attention seeking. The fact of the matter is, many of us just don’t like all the political shit that goes along with being in a clique or group of chatty females. The few times I’ve allowed myself to befriend a group of females, I got more emotional turmoil and drama than I really cared to be a part of. I’m sorry, but I just don’t give a shit about what you and your boyfriend did last weekend and why you’re pissed off that he called and spoke to so-and-so and whether or not you think you should try that new diet or what color lipstick you bought the other day. I just wanna go play some video games or shoot some pool or somethin’. Damn woman, get a life! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/35 "2003-05-09T13:46:46Z")
Man…someone needs to alert **Manda JO** to the presence of this thread. She always has something sage and mild to say when these types of threads pop up. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/36 "2003-05-09T14:33:23Z")
for the ladies who are chiming in on this thread that are more comfortable with guys- that’s great! while i’m not a fan of the generalizations you’re making about women that do tend to hang together, i see your point. however, i think that you are missing part of the OP’s problem with this woman, and others like her- it’s not so much about her behavior, but how she reads and manipulates the behavior of the guys around her. i’m very cool about women hanging out with guys due to common interests, etc. but to suggest that gender is no longer a factor in these interactions is naive. if you are a woman in a group of guys, yes, you are treated differently than the other members of the group. i don’t worry about any of my guy pals ending up raped when we go out to a bar, i don’t worry about them getting too drunk and getting into a fistfight, i generally don’t worry about their safety beyond making sure they aren’t driving drunk. i DO tend to be concerned about female friends like that. so maybe it’s one of those perks that female pals have that you might not even see? even if there is no sexual attention involved (and i’ve yet to see this), and you’re treated like a sister, you can bet your behind that you’re back is getting watched a lot closer than the others. The CGGS in the OP is obviously aware of this dynamic and uses it to her full advantage, sexually, materially, and emotionally. that is disgusting. and i also have little pity for her, as low as her self-esteem may be. it’s her choice to be a CGGS. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/37 "2003-05-09T14:37:50Z")
As much as I’m ashamed to admit it, I pretty much feel the way jetgirl does. It’s weird because I _know_ not all women watch Oprah, read romance novels, bitch about their husbands, complain about a smudge in their fingernail polish, whine about not what Karen said but how she said it and the fact that she said it in front of Sue and Mary and anxiously await the new Julia Roberts/Richard Gere romantic comedy but I can’t help thinking that way! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/38 "2003-05-09T14:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*Damn. > > I could have SWORN this was going to be a spam rant. \*\* Or a good porno recommendation! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/39 "2003-05-09T16:04:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*Oh, and apparently there’s one other type of woman who likes to hang exclusively with guys – as long as they’re gay guys. I know a girl like that, she hung with the 2-3 gay friends of mine pretty much all the time. According to one of my gay friends, this is actually pretty common, and he refers to them as “fag hags” (his phrase, not mine.) Seems like there’s something a little screwed up about that, and my friend says alot of gay men have pretty low tolerance for it. What _those_ women’s motivations could be, I haven’t a clue. \*\* Well, I suppose I could have been considered one of these when I lived with my roommate - but it wasn’t as if I chose to specifically hang out with gay guys - they just happened to be my friends at the time. So for the most part, I hung out with my roommate, his boyfriend, and two other gay men. I didn’t have any motivation for it, they were simply the people I enjoyed spending most of my time with. I don’t relate well to women most of the time - I have a female best friend from college whom I can talk to about anything, but since I’m not a typical girly-girl, I just feel uncomfortable around most women with the exception of a group of friends in NYC who were your typical NYC young single girls or a few female internet friends - and it surprised the hell out of me that we all got along so well. And until I met my SO, I’ve never been particularly comfortable around straight guys, either. For me, it’s always just been natural to gravitate towards gay men, and they gravitate towards me in terms of friendship. It’s not as if it’s intentional, I just seem to have more in common with them. And I never latch onto them or vice-versa - we genuinely enjoy each other’s company. There _are_ gay men who abhore so-called ‘fag hags’, but to be honest, most of those are the kind of men that I wouldn’t like if they were gay _or_ straight or liked to screw horses. My gay roommate doesn’t care for that type either - In fact, he much prefers hanging out with his own fag-hag (me) than to hanging out with that type of gay guy. It’s just not a personality match. Ava ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958/40 "2003-05-09T18:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Ladies, if you have a common interest with us guys, feel free to enjoy that with us and we’ll be glad to have you around. But don’t pretend that you’re 100% “one of the boys”, because the vast majority of guys act much differently when women are around then when they’re with just the guys, and even the most tomboyish girl doesn’t count as a guy for those purposes, it’s biological and subconscious. You just can’t get around it girls. I’m not pretending a thing in saying that I am 100% ‘one of the boys’. I was at my friend’s bachelor party, been to the strip club with them, and watched them morph into sanitized versions of themselves when a female shows up. Some of them seem completely oblivious to the fact that I am even female, and have expressed serious shock that anyone would ever suggest I am female. It’s not one interest, where I’m just with them to watch hockey or to go to the gun range, it’s much easier to list the things that I don’t have in common with them because there are less of them. > [@](#): > > **The Wrong Girl** said: > If you don’t want people in this thread to make generalizations about women who can’t get along with other women, maybe it’s prudent not to make generalizations yourself. I honestly don’t know see you can protest being stereotyped because you don’t like women, yet in the next breath, say that women are all about candle holders and makeup. I haven’t met many women who weren’t into that stuff, and those who I have met who are like me I are kind of my friends. I know there are other women out there who aren’t into those things, I just don’t meet them often. > [@](#): > > **XJETGIRLX** said: > I just never met that many chicks who digged comic books, military equipment, action movies with lots of shooting and chase scenes, martial arts, video games, playing guitar and other typically ‘male’ activities. Say that again, dude. See, here’s one of those women who’s not into that stuff and if I ever met her would probably be someone I’d like to be friends with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cum-guzzling-gutter-sluts/173958.md?page=3)