# Cumberland, MD is full of scum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230 "2004-05-08T22:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/1 "2004-05-08T22:55:09Z")
> [@](#): > > For many in the sleepy town of Cumberland, home of the military company at the heart of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, the U.S. soldiers are the real victims and the Iraqis had it coming. People in this town are making excuses for their hometown soldiers who committed crimes. Why can’t they just stand up and admit that these soldiers are criminals and deserve to be punished? Maybe the fact that so many people in this town are excuse-making scum caused these soldiers to think they do this. > [@](#): > > Jamey Hill, a local postal worker, said the photos of naked prisoners in sexual positions, in a pile or on a leash, were nothing compared to the images of murdered Americans dangling from a bridge in the town of Falluja in March. So it wasn’t as bad as some things done by insurgents, but since the insurgents aren’t as bad as the Nazis I guess nobody in this situation did anything wrong? The people of this town should be apologizing for the scum they raised, not making excuses. Hopefully, the good people of this town can change things. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=6&u=/nm/20040508/us\_nm/iraq\_abuse\_town\_dc](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=6&u=/nm/20040508/us_nm/iraq_abuse_town_dc) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/2 "2004-05-08T23:14:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The people of this town should be apologizing for the scum they raised, not making excuses. Evidently you missed a few parts. > [@](#): > > **"I’m not happy about it (the prison abuse)…"** > [@](#): > > **"What were they thinking to do this, and then to take pictures of it?" she said. “When they come home, it’s not going to be the welcome home the soldiers usually get,” she said.** > [@](#): > > \*\*“What they did was wrong…” \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\*“I don’t care what background they’re from and what culture, but to treat them like animals, that’s not right,” she said. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/3 "2004-05-08T23:18:31Z")
Sure they say it wrong, but then they start making excuses. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/4 "2004-05-08T23:39:18Z")
Most of the people quoted as being against the abuse are not the same people quoted as understanding or failing to condemn it. And the sentiments of the people in their hometown are echoed all across the nation, both for and against. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/5 "2004-05-08T23:49:07Z")
No, Cumberland is not a town of sociopaths. Cumberland is a town that does just as we all would, it defends its own. Unfortunately the Reserve company from Cumberland had bad leadership, both among the company officers and NCOs and at the battalion and brigade. That is no reflection on the town but it is an indictment of the organization. If you will read Major General Ghraib’s report you might understand that. With a through housecleaning and new officers and NCOs the company will come back but it’s not going to be any fun. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/6 "2004-05-09T03:33:03Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > And the sentiments of the people in their hometown are echoed all across the nation, both for and against. That’s because people find these events confusing. Their moral foundations have taken as severe a beating in the past week as did their sense of physical security on 9-11. So far no one has come forward to serve as their rod and their staff and lead them from this terrible darkness. The angst is consuming them. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/7 "2004-05-09T03:39:29Z")
On the subject of moral leadership, I must say that I’m shocked at the lack of attention being payed to America’s children in this crisis. After 9-11, there we were were bombarded by endless stories written about how we should present the events to our children, how to prevent damage to their delicate psyches. But this week **nothing**. Have we learned the lessons of 9-11 so well that a little review of seldom used parenting skills is **not** in order here? ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/8 "2004-05-09T04:04:38Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > On the subject of moral leadership, I must say that I’m shocked at the lack of attention being payed to America’s children in this crisis. After 9-11, there we were were bombarded by endless stories written about how we should present the events to our children, how to prevent damage to their delicate psyches. But this week **nothing**. Have we learned the lessons of 9-11 so well that a little review of seldom used parenting skills is **not** in order here? [Helen Lovejoy] Can’t someone think of the children? [/hl] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/9 "2004-05-09T04:10:07Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > If you will read Major General Ghraib’s report you might understand that. [nitpick] Abu Ghraib is the name of the prison, not the name of the General. The Major General’s name is Antonio M. Taguba [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/10 "2004-05-09T04:19:27Z")
> [@](#): > > [Helen Lovejoy] Can’t someone think of the children? [/hl] Sure **if6was9** , but after 9-11 it was a regular schtick for the president, and America’s parents really _did_ need help explaining things to their kids without traumatizing them. If anything, these pictures of good American soldiers tormenting prisoners will be harder to explain. Don’t we care what weird things Barbie and GI Joe will be getting up to after little Missy watches the evening news, or how many teenage Anne Frank enthusiasts slip over the edge of psychosis when they start obsessing over _today’s_ horrors? ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/11 "2004-05-09T04:44:24Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Sure **if6was9** , but after 9-11 it was a regular schtick for the president, and America’s parents really _did_ need help explaining things to their kids without traumatizing them. If anything, these pictures of good American soldiers tormenting prisoners will be harder to explain. Don’t we care what weird things Barbie and GI Joe will be getting up to after little Missy watches the evening news, or how many teenage Anne Frank enthusiasts slip over the edge of psychosis when they start obsessing over _today’s_ horrors? I think you give “America’s children” far too little credit. They’re not stupid. If you explain the facts to them, they will understand. To assume that they won’t is just… 19th century… children should be seen and not heard. Pfffft! If you’re that GD worried then keep them from watching the Nightly News… (to their utter detriment…) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/12 "2004-05-09T05:32:38Z")
> [@if6was9](#): > > I think you give “America’s children” far too little credit. They’re not stupid. If you explain the facts to them, they will understand. To assume that they won’t is just… 19th century… children should be seen and not heard. I’m quite sure 19th-century children were pretty tough, what with working in the mills and all. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/13 "2004-05-09T06:34:43Z")
**If you’re that GD worried then keep them from watching the Nightly News… (to their utter detriment…)** Because we all know that a childhood that isn’t spent sitting in front of the TV eating junk food is a childhood WASTED. **I’m quite sure 19th-century children were pretty tough, what with working in the mills and all.** I tend to agree. I imagine the average 12 year old today would be a total pansyass compared to a 12 year old farm kid from 1850. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/14 "2004-05-09T11:32:36Z")
I think it’s more a defense mechanism than anything else. People don’t want to believe that people who lived in the same town as them, perhaps people they knew and worked with, could do such horrible things. One of the men accused worked for the same manufacturing plant I worked at at the same time. I was a contractor in the IT department, and he was on the assembly line, I think, so we never met, as far as I know, but it was odd to think that. People don’t want to believe that people just like them are capable of the kind of horrific acts these soldiers have done. After all, if people just like them are capable of such things, who’s to say they themselves aren’t? We all want to believe “it can’t happen here”, whatever “it” happens to be. When I was in high school, “it” was the Holocaust. My schoolmates told themselves that the extermination of 6 million Jews could never happen in America because we were different. My social situation being what it was, I didn’t buy that myself, but I understand the desire, the _need_ to think that. I’m not justifying the actions of the soldiers or those who created an environment in which this could happen. I’m tempted to get in an “I told you so”, even though I know I didn’t. When we demonize or dehumanize a group of people, we leave an opening for this to happen. I think some dehumanization is necessary in war – after all, I would think that realizing the guy who’s trying to kill you might have a wife and kids just like you do would make it harder to be effective in combat – but it went too far. If I were in the mood for grand, sweeping statements about society as a whole – but no, I’m not, and besides, I haven’t had my morning cup of tea yet. I don’t think people are trying so much to excuse these soldiers’ actions as to understand why it happened in a way which might somehow make sense. These men and women were, before this happened, neighbors, relatives, and friends. I’d like to think no relative or friend of mine would do such a thing. I also know that I’ve yielded to peer pressure and done something I know to be wrong, and this was an adult, not a teenager. We caught a glimpse of the worst of humanity the past week or so, and that’s a hard thing to do. Enough rambling! I’m off to make that cup of tea! CJ ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cumberland-md-is-full-of-scum/244230/15 "2004-05-09T11:40:27Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > [nitpick] > > Abu Ghraib is the name of the prison, not the name of the General. > > The Major General’s name is Antonio M. Taguba > > [/nitpick] Noted. Thank You.