# curious george, Chronolict, JDM, and Chas. E., please come in here. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2001, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665 "2001-09-19T20:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/81 "2001-09-21T05:26:31Z")
Dude, only 17 posts? Where ya been? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/82 "2001-09-21T05:49:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > > \*\*I will make a bold prediction: ANY Bush who becomes president will be subject to attacks from Islamic fanatics. As long as there is a Taliban or a Hussein, they’ll be fanatically devoted to attacking President Jenna Bush (or Jeb, Neil, whoever). > > \*\* > And you obviously have Bush on the brain. Hussein, Bin Laden, etc, ad nauseum, hate AMERICA. Whether or not Bush is the president has NOTHING to do with it. The reasons are MUCH more politically complex ([Janes.com](http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw010914_1_n.shtml)) and some of the other people that may be involved have their own reasons for hating America \*\* Way to go, Stiletto! Welcome to the SDMB! What offends me is the implication that 1) We should elect leaders based on who is/isn’t approved of by the terrorists - talk about letting them win!; and 2) Any Bush that runs for and accepts public office is deliberately and selfishly endangering the nation. What a load of crap! Hell, I didn’t vote for Bush, but it was because I didn’t agree with some of his policies, not because I was worried that his election would inspire a terrorist attack! If I’d thought this was the case, I’d probably have voted for Bush just to send the terrorists a message - “Fuck off! It’s MY goddamn country - we’ll elect the goddamn Energizer Bunny for president if that’s who we want.” ---
**Author:** ![Stiletto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Stiletto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stiletto)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/83 "2001-09-21T06:23:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Dude, only 17 posts? Where ya been? 😃 \*\* 😃 Well, unlike a few people around here, I try not to open my mouth just to verify my shoe size. And ya know, it’s been a BAD week. ☹ But I have to say, I’m really enjoying being here so far. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by coosa \* > \*\*Way to go, Stiletto! Welcome to the SDMB! > > What offends me is the implication that > > 1. We should elect leaders based on who is/isn’t approved of by the terrorists - talk about letting them win!; and > 2. Any Bush that runs for and accepts public office is deliberately and selfishly endangering the nation. \*\* Thanks for the welcome, **coosa**. And I have to agree. On both counts. We absolutely CANNOT be worried about whether or not our candidate is or is not going to tick off the terrorists. That’s ridiculous. And I didn’t vote for George, either…for the same reasons. But President of the United States has got to be one of the _toughest_ jobs on the planet. I can bitch about what he does and doesn’t do, but the man has my _respect_ for stepping up to do it. -Stil ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/84 "2001-09-21T06:43:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > \*\*These are the people you are defending, if you are not like them, state so here, and quit supporting their insanity. \*\* For the record, I am NOT defending them, I am merely posting in the same threads as they are and disagreeing with some statements made. That is not defending someone else, even if you think that’s what I’m doing. BTW, I notice that not one of the other evil liberals named in this thread have appeared to make the slightest defense of their words. You should at least respect me for having the honor to defend my opinions, but also realize that they are OPINIONS, like yours. Just because you disagree with my political opinions, that does not mean I am evil, or even a jerk. And this is the horror of this situation. Tonight, El Presidente said “You’re either with us, or against us.” Everything is pure black or white. You’re either a rabid hawk, or you’re as bad as the terrorists. This is sickening. America is a land of many people with many differing ideas, Bush is essentially declaring war on dissenters in the US. And so is most everyone on this board. I am as anxious as anyone to get justice for the horrors of WTC. However, I am opposed to destroying the very principles that make this country great, in the process of seeking that justice. A tragedy has occurred, let us not compound the tragedy by abandoning our principles in a rush to “infinite justice.” ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/85 "2001-09-21T08:22:05Z")
Wait wait… _you_ said opinions don’t make people jerks? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/86 "2001-09-21T08:49:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Tonight, El Presidente said “You’re either with us, or against us.” Everything is pure black or white. You’re either a rabid hawk, or you’re as bad as the terrorists. This is sickening. America is a land of many people with many differing ideas, Bush is essentially declaring war on dissenters in the US. Uh… you _do_ know the difference between hyperbole and actual policy, right? ---
**Author:** ![Protesilaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/87 "2001-09-21T08:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > > \*\*Dude, only 17 posts? Where ya been? 😃 \*\* > > 😃 Well, unlike a few people around here, I try not to open my mouth just to verify my shoe size. And ya know, it’s been a BAD week. :(\*\* It’s a good policy, and one I’ve been using myself this week. In trying times like this, I remind myself of what Mark Twain once said, “It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” But I like the way you said it better. Welcome, **Stiletto**. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/88 "2001-09-21T09:32:45Z")
\*Originally posted by Chas E. \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Tonight, El Presidente said “You’re either with us, or against us.” Everything is pure black or white. You’re either a rabid hawk, or you’re as bad as the terrorists. This is sickening. America is a land of many people with many differing ideas, Bush is essentially declaring war on dissenters in the US. \*\* \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \*\*\* Uh… you _do_ know the difference between hyperbole and actual policy, right? \*\* [/QUOTE] Apparently not… ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/89 "2001-09-21T10:29:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > \*\* . . . you obviously have Bush on the brain. Hussein, Bin Laden, etc, ad nauseum, hate AMERICA. Whether or not Bush is the president has NOTHING to do with it. The reasons are MUCH more politically complex ([Janes.com](http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw010914_1_n.shtml)) and some of the other people that may be involved have their own reasons for hating America ([Again, Janes.com](http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr010919_1_n.shtml)) > Now, allow me to lead you through some simple math. Bush was officially certified as president on December 11th, 2000. Yet according to [Time Magazine](http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/wplot.html): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Israel’s Mossad, experts in this sort of thing, estimate that it took at least two years and 100 people to pull it off. Someone thought long and hard how to do it, then found willing fanatics to carry it out. > > \*\* > So are you really trying to tell us that they were only planning this **IN CASE** another Bush got elected to the White House, or that they were willing to hold off **UNTIL** one was elected? 😃 > \*\* Isn’t it obvious? The Muslim terrorists, while training in Del Ray Beach, Florida, arranged to sabotage the Presidential election in that state, knowing well in advance that Florida would be the last state to report in. Then, they managed to buy off the Supreme Court so that any decision they made would be in Bush’s favor. It’s been a conspiracy between the terrorists and the Republicans all along!! Hey, it’s at least as plausible as anything anyone else has said. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/90 "2001-09-21T11:28:11Z")
Perhaps **Zenster** might be added to the list. As evidence, I submit [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=88156) thread… ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/91 "2001-09-21T11:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SouthernStyle \* > \*\*Although Ms. Rankin is widely regarded as a pioneer in women’s rights, her solitary vote against declaring war on Japan is her lasting claim to fame. Regardless of her motives, her vote was tantamount to surrendering the U.S. to the Japanese. One has to wonder this: if she had been the deciding vote would she have chosen war or surrender? > \*\* I’ve been thinking back about the comments in this thread, and of all of them, this one bugs me the most. The situation you hypothesize is a 51/49 split on a declaration of war. This would mean the country as a whole was presumably bitterly divided over whether we should go to war, and the swing vote could have gone either way. You cannot attribute the defeat of the declaration to one single person, presumably since the votes represent the people, half of the US population would be opposed to the war in this circumstance. Furthermore, failure to declare war is not equal to surrender. If the US hadn’t declared war after Pearl Harbor, they could have declared it later. It might have meant a tougher war, or perhaps even eventual defeat. But it is not tantamount to immediate surrender. Anyway, I can see there is little point in continuing to participate in this thread. Not one single person came forward to accept my “mano a mano” challenge. Apparently I can only be shouted down, not defeated in a fair debate. You are all cowards, incapable of winning an argument by quality, only by quantity. I win by default. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/92 "2001-09-21T12:09:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*Tonight, El Presidente said… \*\* …that you will have your opinions and points taken a little more seriously by others once you stop with the clearly partisan, irrational titles like “El Presidente”. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/93 "2001-09-21T12:41:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I win by default. That’s like Gary Condit saying he passed a polygraph test administered by his own lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/94 "2001-09-21T15:58:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*Apparently I can only be shouted down, not defeated in a fair debate. You are all cowards, incapable of winning an argument by quality, only by quantity. I win by default. \*\* But who would judge that “quality”? Seriously? For nearly all people, the arguments they agree with are the ones of higher “quality”. That said, contrary to your last sentence, quantity of opinion has considerable worth, I believe. In fact, very often in human society, the preponderance of opinion is _de facto_ the truth. For better or worse, “truth” and “right” can be and have been properly and legitimately defined _ad hoc_ by the prevailing opinions of given society at a given moment in time. So it is also for a public forum such as this one. Therefore, it’s hard to claim victory in a public debate when very few people agree with you in the end. You’ve fought the good fight, but you haven’t convinced anyone to buy what you are selling – **and our not buying your wares is a completely legitmate act** (as opposed to any personal attacks, which ARE illegitimate) because there are hundreds of us thinking in hundreds of different ways, yet still disagreeing with you. What you’re up against is not sheep-like groupthink – it is the preponderence of individual, differing mindsets that all disagree with what you’ve put forth. ---
**Author:** ![Stiletto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Stiletto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stiletto)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/95 "2001-09-21T16:01:15Z")
**Chas,** Chas, [sub]Chas…[/sub] Okay. I realize I am probably wasting my time, but I’m going to try this once, and only **once** more. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \*\*\* > You should at least respect me for having the honor to defend my opinions, but also realize that they are OPINIONS, like yours. Just because you disagree with my political opinions, that does not mean I am evil, or even a jerk. \*\* I never, \*\*ever, \*\*said that you were not entitled to an opinion. I also never said that stating your opinion made you a jerk. What I did say was that the rest of us would like to see some supporting evidence that backs up your opinion, so that we don’t think you’re just a raving nutcase that likes blathering. SHOW US something to support the things you say. If you’re only here to find new and interesting ways to insult the President, the voters, the country, the SDMB-ers, and whoever else you feel like targetting, then may I recommend you direct your browser to [Bored.com](http://www.bored.com). We don’t need you here. Find something else to do. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \*\*\* > Furthermore, failure to declare war is not equal to surrender. If the US hadn’t declared war after Pearl Harbor, they could have declared it later. It might have meant a tougher war, or perhaps even eventual defeat. But it is not tantamount to immediate surrender. \*\* You see, this is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. Find a paper from a social or political analyst that supports your view. If you’re going to say this kind of thing, show me **some sort of evidence** that if Pearl Harbor didn’t pull us into the war, anything else that happened would have. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \*\*\* > Anyway, I can see there is little point in continuing to participate in this thread. Not one single person came forward to accept my “mano a mano” challenge. Apparently I can only be shouted down, not defeated in a fair debate. You are all cowards, incapable of winning an argument by quality, only by quantity. I win by default. \*\* No, **Chas.E** , I did not and will not accept that challenge. There is absolutely no honor in killing an unarmed opponent. -Stil **hyperbole \Hy_per"bo_le,** _n._ A figure of speech in which the expression is an evident exaggeration of the meaning intended to be conveyed, or by which things are represented as much greater or less, better or worse, than they really are; a statement exaggerated fancifully, through excitement, or for effect. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/96 "2001-09-21T17:17:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\* Not one single person came forward to accept my “mano a mano” challenge. Apparently I can only be shouted down, not defeated in a fair debate. You are all cowards, incapable of winning an argument by quality, only by quantity. I win by default. \*\* 😕 What exactly are you proposing, Chas? That we all get together in the back room and assign one person to debate you? In case you haven’t noticed, it is not possible to shout you down, this is a message board, everyone gets to speak, speak carefully, thoughtfully, and be “heard” just fine, because we are \* reading \*. (Which is the absolute beauty of message boards!). It also doesn’t matter how many people are arguing with you in terms of your response. If you say: “The sky is green with shades of red around the edges”, and 50 other people tell you it’s blue, you don’t have to respond to all 50 of them separately, and you know that perfectly well. Chas, you know I cut you a great deal of slack because of your willingness to go to the mat for Apple, but you really are not doing yourself any good with this. This is just silly, and we all know it, including you. And the only way you win is if you can come up with solid, irrefutable information OR you graciously admit that perhaps you allowed your emotion to rule your reason and said some stuff that wasn’t exactly scientficially proven. (I’m not paying close attention to details here). What you’ve done here is the equivalent of saying “You’re all mean! I’m going home and taking my ball with me, and that means I won the game!” stoid ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/97 "2001-09-21T17:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > \*\*And waiter, could I have a seat in the “liberal-but-not-a-fuckin-lunatic section”…but I want some of that dead animal, too, please. 🙂 \*\* Sure, did you want the Spotted Owl Appetizers or the Condor Casserole? ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/98 "2001-09-21T18:38:14Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I win by default. \*\* Okay. You’re right, you win. Will you please go away now? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/99 "2001-09-21T18:47:06Z")
After just reading this entire thread for the first time, all I can say is I agree with what coosa just said. ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665/100 "2001-09-21T18:52:08Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Anyway, I can see there is little point in continuing to participate in this thread. Not one single person came forward to accept my “mano a mano” challenge. Apparently I can only be shouted down, not defeated in a fair debate. You are all cowards, incapable of winning an argument by quality, only by quantity. I win by default. \*\* Hey - didn’t I see this posted over in **Fenris’** [The Loser’s Handbook](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87747&pagenumber=2)? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*_Declaration of Premature Victory_: > Loser: “I win. Debate over!” > > Teeming Millions: "Erm…no. You don’t. You haven’t answered a single point and your last post had two dozen factual errors in the first sent… > > Loser: “Doesn’t matter. I win. You Lose.” > > Teeming Millions: “But…what about…?” > > Loser: “LALALALA! I CAN’T HEAR YOU 'CAUSE I’M SINGING THE “I WIN” SONG! LALALALALA!” > > Fenris \*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-chronolict-jdm-and-chas-e-please-come-in-here/82665.md?page=6)