# curious george shows depth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259 "2001-09-17T21:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/21 "2001-09-18T16:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*The disgusting demonization of opposing points of view is something I’d expect from the Taliban, but not from Americans. Knock it off. \*\* Interesting that this statement would come from you. On this board you have [consistently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1461579) [insulted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78676&pagenumber=3) those with [differing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=75245) [view](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=64785) [points](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73740), and now you have the gall to accuse others of it? Did you notice that the person you are defending is doing exactly what you are now claiming is disgusting? You are the most incredible hypocrite that I have ever had the displeasure to run across. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/22 "2001-09-18T20:18:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **Are there any conservatives on the board who would care to field this? Why did the President reject these treaties if they were so “obviously” good for America (I guess)? What were his motivations?** Anybody … Beuller … Beuller … ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/23 "2001-09-18T21:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > > \*\*The disgusting demonization of opposing points of view is something I’d expect from the Taliban, but not from Americans. Knock it off. \*\* > > Interesting that this statement would come from you. On this board you have [consistently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1461579) [insulted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78676&pagenumber=3) those with [differing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=75245) [view](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=64785) [points](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73740), and now you have the gall to accuse others of it? Did you notice that the person you are defending is doing exactly what you are now claiming is disgusting? > \*\* Let me make this clear, I am not defending anyone. I am merely stating my opinion. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to go dig up a bunch of old crap, particularly old crap that got so out of hand due to the behavior of certain people (OTHER than myself) that the Mods had to intervene. Let this one die. The Mods have zero tolerance for the return of this argument. \*\* > [@](#): > > You are the most incredible hypocrite that I have ever had the displeasure to run across. \*\* I can only assume you’ve never looked in a mirror. Now YOU’re the one doing the demonization, at the same time you’re denouncing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/24 "2001-09-18T21:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*Chas E, you may have misunderstood me a little bit. I meant “what was the context of Bush rejecting those treaties?” I am a staunch conservative, and I pretty much assume there was good reason for the US to not ratify those treaties – even if I myself am not briefed on what those reasons are. > > I’ll take a stab at it: through conservative eyes, Kyoto would somehow handicap our nation’s industry, right? The ABM and NTB treaties would copmromise our nation’s defense, right?\*\* Well, that is the whole point of treaties, we abandon certain things which might benefit us, for the benefit of global stability, global ecology, etc. Our national defense doesn’t seem to have been compromised in any way by voluntarily abandoning live nuclear weapons testing and ABM systems, seems to me like these were treaties that worked. But we will never know, having never been in a nuclear war, and perhaps that is because of these treaties. But one thing is positively clear, the abandonment of these treaties made our enemies join into new political agreements. This makes us weaker. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/25 "2001-09-18T22:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > **You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to go dig up a bunch of old crap, particularly old crap that got so out of hand due to the behavior of certain people (OTHER than myself) that the Mods had to intervene.** Other than yourself? I believe you were in the “To:”-list on that e-mail as well, buddy. If you’re gonna hint at off-board communications, you might as well be 100% correct. 'Cause them mods, they read the boards, amazingly enough. > [@](#): > > \*\* Let this one die. The Mods have zero tolerance for the return of this argument.\*\* True, but linking to those threads is hardly a crime. It is, however, rather irrelevant in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/26 "2001-09-18T23:12:26Z")
Ah, I get it. They drove those airliners into the World Trade Center because Bush refused to sign to Kyoto treaty. I didn’t know Osama bin Ladin was such an environmentalist. Chas, perhaps you need to take a few deep breaths. How about this. Isn’t it possible that George Bush is a crypto-fascist asshole, but that Bush’s assholishness had nothing to do with the terrorist bombings? I know, I know, Bush and the conservatives are responsible for everything bad that happens in the universe. But maybe, just maybe, they didn’t cause this one? Hell, even Pat Robertson is frantically trying to backpedal from his idiotic “blame the liberals!” comments. Perhaps you should consider doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/27 "2001-09-19T00:14:15Z")
> [@](#): > > You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to go dig up a bunch of old crap, particularly old crap that got so out of hand due to the behavior of certain people (OTHER than myself) that the Mods had to intervene. Oh, give me a fucking break. You’ve been called an asshole by a fuckload of people on this board, and for good reason. Don’t even fucking pretend to be some poor persecuted martyr. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/28 "2001-09-19T01:34:30Z")
Coldfire, please let this drop, it is just fueling the fire. You know what I meant, I was not referring to the letter, but the actions before it. And that is all I have to say about this. Mail me if you really must pursue this (which I am sure you don’t). I hope you will note that my behavior on this board has been much better once I got some relief from this situation. waterj2, sure, lots of people have called me an asshole. Well, mostly just 3 people. But that’s just their opinion. And even an asshole can be right. I will not cease espousing unpopular beliefs just because they are unpopular. I can state my case logically and bring new information to a debate. Unfortunately it appears there are few people prepared to think for themselves and evaluate statements that go against the current propaganda campaign by the Bush junta. Ignorance wins again. lemur, sure, there is plenty of evidence that Bush is a crypto-facist, and there is no possible way to make any definitive link between his idiocy and the attack. Well, perhaps there is ONE way, from a direct statement from whoever masterminded the attack. But it is pretty obvious that this attack was a message. Bush Senior started this problem with the Taliban when he was CIA chief and as VP and Pres, the sins of the father are revisited on the son. How could any terrorist resist a chance to poke big holes in the only major policy initiative of the Bush Jr. administration, the SDI program? Bush’s incompetence in international politics made us all vulnerable. I’m not personally espousing a causal link, you won’t hear me argue that Bush _caused_ the attack. But if you don’t want to get your ass kicked, you shouldn’t walk around with a “kick me” sign stuck on your back. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/29 "2001-09-19T02:17:59Z")
> [@](#): > > But it is pretty obvious that this attack was a message. Bush Senior started this problem with the Taliban when he was CIA chief and as VP and Pres, the sins of the father are revisited on the son. Do you ever get tired of lying? God knows there are enough true negative charges to stick on Bush _pere et fils_, but the Taliban only started to coalesce during Clinton’s administration. When Bush Sr. was in charge of the CIA in the 1970s, Afghanistan was ruled by Mahammed Daoud Khan, who led a military coup that threw out King Zahir Shah in 1973. However, the muhajideen who were armed and trained by the CIA are the troops of the Taliban today, so you can blame Reagan if you like, or more appropriately, you can blame the Soviets, whose 1980 invasion of Afghanistan is the direct cause of today’s chaos. Do your homework before you argue politics, putz! How could any terrorist resist a chance to poke big holes in the only major policy initiative of the Bush Jr. administration, the SDI program? Bush’s incompetence in international politics made us all vulnerable. I’m not personally espousing a causal link, you won’t hear me argue that Bush caused the attack. But if you don’t want to get your ass kicked, you shouldn’t walk around with a “kick me” sign stuck on your back ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/30 "2001-09-19T02:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not personally espousing a causal link, you won’t hear me argue that Bush caused the attack. But if you don’t want to get your ass kicked, you shouldn’t walk around with a “kick me” sign stuck on your back Is it me, or is there a logical disconect between those two sentences? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/31 "2001-09-19T03:29:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **However, the muhajideen who were armed and trained by the CIA are the troops of the Taliban today, so you can blame Reagan if you like…** Right. Reagan AND his VP Bush, who was chosen for that position largely due to his role at CIA. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/32 "2001-09-19T03:41:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > [H]is VP Bush, who was chosen for that position largely due to his role at CIA. Man, baseless assertions really are your _forte_ these days, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/33 "2001-09-19T05:39:09Z")
Uh, I don’t know much about the foreign policy, or middle east politics, but I heard on the news that Laden may have been planning this for 2-5 years. Bush has only been in office for 8 months. Somehow that time frame just doesn’t seem right. Unless Laden is psychic, in which case we’re all pretty much screwed. But that’s the only answer we could accept if you are trying to blame this on Dubya ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/34 "2001-09-19T07:43:06Z")
Wow. Only a single week, and already people are trying to use the disaster to score cheap points. Why am I not surprised? I’ll lay it down straight for those who seem to suffer from lack of brain activity: The presence of Bush in office, or his policies, had nothing to do with the WTC tragedy. Osama bin Laden has hated the United States for his entire life, and the only thing that would have changed his mind to launch such a grievous attack would have been if the entirety of the United States suddenly started thinking and acting in the same way that ObL does. There’s a reason the USA has been referred to as “Great Satan” for decades. So shut your small-minded, petty, dickheaded, shit-drooling little mouths and go play in the corner with your Left-Wing Sally dolls. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/35 "2001-09-19T08:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*Coldfire, please let this drop, it is just fueling the fire. \*\* Then don’t start one that includes me or my colleagues the next time around. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/36 "2001-09-19T09:34:50Z")
Assholes seem to forget that the planning of this attack is estimated to have been in the works for **SEVEN (7) YEARS**. That damn Bush. It must’ve been because of his DUI. ---
**Author:** ![Hibbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ce73a5/32.png) [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/37 "2001-09-19T15:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Uh, I don’t know much about the foreign policy, or middle east politics, but I heard on the news that Laden may have been planning this for 2-5 years. Bush has only been in office for 8 months. > [@](#): > > Assholes seem to forget that the planning of this attack is estimated to have been in the works for SEVEN(7) YEARS. I’m sure those who feel this act was in response to the current administration will assert that these facts do not necessarily reflect on past administrations. They’ll claim this was something set up to be activated in response to the election of a Republican/conservative administration. **Chas.E** has already alluded to this: > [@](#): > > Bush on CNN: “Our missile shield will stop rogue nations from attacking the US.” > bin Laden: “oh yeah? It won’t prevent my terrorists from hitting their targets. I think I’ll give the green light to my sleeper agents.” Are people like **Chas.E** , **Chronolicht** , and **curious george** so naïve as to believe that America will be safe as long as _their_ candidate is in office? ht ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/38 "2001-09-19T16:21:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > \*\*Are people like **Chas.E** , **Chronolicht** , and **curious george** so naïve as to believe that America will be safe as long as _their_ candidate is in office? > ht \*\* Apparently. You see, no terrorist organization would ever have reason to attack the WTC if a foreign policy whiz like Clinton was still in office. [sub]what? they did?[/sub] Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/39 "2001-09-19T16:37:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*I can only assume you’ve never looked in a mirror. Now YOU’re the one doing the demonization, at the same time you’re denouncing it. \*\* Sorry, no. What I was doing was highlighting what I perceived as your hypocrisy. In the OP, I made specific comments about what a specific poster said, not a blanket statement concerning the “demonization of opposing points of view”, and I certainly didn’t compare anyone to the Taliban. However, since you weren’t defending the subject of the OP, I apologize for bringing up old arguments and fights. I will address this though: > [@](#): > > **For starts, Bush rejected the Kyoto environmental treaty, the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty, and the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. The ABM and NTB treaty abrogation resulted in Russia and China forming new political alliances, and China is now on a campaign to build up its nuclear weapon arsenal. Bush also gave the green light to Israel’s campaign of assassination by missile, which enraged the Palestinians into a new wave of terror attacks.** Let’s see…the Kyoto treaty and NTB treaties haven’t been signed, so an argument could be made that Bush, by not signing them, is maintaining the status quo, not making new policy. As for the ABMT, technically it has not been broken because we have not implemented an anti-missile defense yet, only talked about it, which is an important distinction. As for new political alliances between Russia and China, China hasn’t ratified the NTB treaty either, so why would Russia suddenly ally with them? Lastly, I really would like a cite that shows that Bush approved any attacks by Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Chronolicht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Chronolicht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronolicht)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259/40 "2001-09-19T18:13:42Z")
It is truly amazing that all you generally anti-cerebrative terminal valve Republicans (and [single issue] gun nuts masquerading as Libertarians) are sitting there at your monitors doing your best to cook up defenses for this simian atavism. This is a beauty. The ad populum invert: “But dammit, the man has heart. He’s cried real tears over this.” —Bricker ``` Get a fucking grip. Why don't you level your profound sense of propriety at the fact that the man is a pretender? Where is your overblown sense of rectitude when it comes to the fact that the man is a fraud? Don't you feel a bit out of sorts that you are giving your props to a man who represents the most egregious abrogation of the one-man, one-vote principle ever perpetrated? No. No, we wont forget it. People who truly value democracy are agog that we have stooped so low, that our system has been so thoroughly derailed. It wasn't enough that the right had the longest uninterrupted series of profitable quarters (three months; the limit of our vision), they had to get Clinton with his cigar. No, Clinton is no friend of mine (spineless fuck; didn't inhale, don't ask, don't tell), but at least he attained the seat legally. Then they turn around and accuse Clinton of besmirching the hallowed seat of the presidency. Where is their outrage over the present fraudocracy? Sure. Post about the Supreme Court ruling. Fucking twisted logic by the most rudimentary interpretation. The hypocrisy of the right is appalling. The fact is, the USA has had it a long time coming. You can't continually rain down death from the sky, use the IMF and World Bank to underwrite repressive regimes and remove subsidies for staples, force currency devaluations to ensure cheap resource extraction, arm acquisition minded neigbors who gradually steal your sovereign land, gluttonously and short sightedly use way more than your fair share of the world's resources, and just generally act like rich, arrogant, assholes who deserve what we got via divine proclamation. If it wasn't Bin Laden, it would be someone else. Let's see the guy who is pushing 50 and hasn't mastered his state verbs cry some real tears for the havoc we wreak elsewhere. Let's see all of you have compassion for all those innocents who suffer because of our policies, and then rectify it with your present bellicose, jingoistic, pathological, worldview. ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curious-george-shows-depth/82259.md?page=3)