Fetuses, beyond a certain growth stage, are exactly like babies (and belly buttons)…some are “innies” and some are “outies”.
" The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Yes, and the mods who’ve posted in this thread have said exactly that.
That’s an “interesting” interpretation of Marley’s instruction. “Interesting” in the sense of incorrect.
The mods are perfectly capable of crafting long run instructions and delivering them to Der Trihs. John Mace could aid in drafting. The problem is that such long run instructions would likely involve content restrictions, something which smacks of censorship.
ATMB Whining Part LMXVIII
Of course that might not be the case. The constructive thing to do would be to propose a set of appropriate long run restrictions for Der. Then we could discuss those. But complaining is so much easier, oui mes amis?
While I don’t agree with it and was actually surprised by it, that appears to be what Marley said.
Now, personally I think this is a bad policy and it seems hypocritical since I’ve seen the mods say in mod notes words to the effect of “we’re getting really tired of this behavior” and they’ve banned people in the past who weren’t breaking any rules but being “one trick pony” posters.
This is particularly clear since in this very thread Der Trihs has effectively admitted that when he makes extreme comments about such groups that he’s doing it to express his feelings about posters int the threads that he’s making the inflammatory comments.
Now, I’ll admit to being confused why stronger action isn’t being taken since both Marley and Tom have repeatedly said they don’t take kindly to people trying to get around the rules and waving their fists in front of people’s face while shouting “I’m not touching you, I’m not touching you” which is exactly what Der Trihs admitted to.
I don’t see why that’s necessary. Just tell him that if he keeps being so excessive in such inflammatory remarks, and in Tom’s words the problem with Der Trihs isn’t what he says, but how often he says, they’ll be forced to intervene.
I was given such suggestions about behavior that was also within the rules and I took the hint.
I see no reason why the same wouldn’t apply to Der Trihs. Such a suggestion would still allow him to make such remarks, but simply not do them as much, and would be cutting him a break, since he earlier admitted that when he makes such remarks he’s actually trying to get around the rules against accusing his opponents of lying.
I actually don’t think he should be banned. Yes, he’s a misogynist and yes he has a ludicrously black and white view of the world and yes he makes the same argument over and over, but he’s certainly less offensive than any of the board’s resident scientific racists or Islamophobes, many of whom are careful enough to avoid even getting mod notes.
As odd as it sounds, yes, that’s what they said.
Mod notes have no force outside the thread within which they were issued. An instruction to “knock that off” means only “knock that off in this thread”. A poster is perfectly free to engage in whatever behavior led to the mod note in any other thread, at will.
Further, mod notes never accumulate. Any behavior that leads to a Warning is a brand new set of circumstances. No Warning ever has anything to do with any mod note.
The mods have no memory and keep no tally of how many mod notes they have issued or against whom.
It sounds bizarre, but that is indeed what they are saying.
Regards,
Shodan
When it comes to what the mods say, let alone what they mean, you don’t exactly have a stellar track record. I think I’ll take your “reinterpretation” with a grain of salt.
It is not a re-interpretation; that’s what they said.
[QUOTE=Ibn Warraq]
I’ll certainly agree that if the point of mod notes saying “knock it off” is “knock it off in this thread” then the policy per Der Trihs is fine
[/QUOTE]
[Quote=Marley23]
Unless stated otherwise, that’s what they mean.
[/quote]
So Marley23 has stated explicitly that is what he means.
I am leaving aside Marley23’s assertion that the mods don’t want to keep track of mod notes and tomndebb’s description of a search he did on the mod notes he issued. So apparently they can keep track of the mod notes, but they don’t want to.
Regards,
Shodan
What do you mean by that?
No it wouldn’t. I can say I disagree with Obama’s latest budget proposal without saying that all Democrats are Muslim, Kenyan, socialists, who hate God, their country, their children and will probably burn in hell.
I really don’t think that is a distinction that even requires a new rule, let alone a long drawn out one.
We have told the members of the SDMB that a Mod Note does not count as a lower grade Warning that will be held against their posting privileges. Choosing to not keep track of Mod Notes is simply the way in which we remain faithful to the assurances that we have previously given.
jtgain did not provide hypothetical instructions to Der Trihs: he merely provided a characterization of Der Trihs’ posts. The behavior of jtgain -high on complaint, low on specific suggestion- is not atypical for ATMB.
Bracketed comments added.
Well I disagree. Upthread you implied that most people are not stupid or crazy. Not so IMHO: all of us are stupid and crazy. We’re jumped up beach apes with the brainstems of crocodiles: our cognition is too often driven by a weird sense of group identity on the one hand, and lame posturing on the other, all the better to pursue a misguided sense of status. Hey, it worked well among the australopithecenes.
I agree that’s it’s helpful to pretend otherwise though. It’s sort of like the scientific method: few working scientists generate hypotheses in the hopes of falsifying them. But the rhetorical structure permits them to sidestep all too human inclinations to see what they want to see in the data and coddle their pet ideas. Similarly, it often makes sense to take highly goal directed arguments at face value even when your opponent ties himself in knots.
Sweet reason rarely persuades anybody in a substantive manner – i.e. it doesn’t shift paradigms. Ridicule can however, as it attacks one sense of self. And the truly bizarre thing is, Der Trihs has moved the ball: my metaphorical jaw dropped when I read some people in MPSIMS saying that he gave them the necessary kick in the butt to set their faith aside. Shifting the Overton window has its virtues.
Der: …although we both know that the ultimate effects of message board rants or arguments are pretty minimal anyway…
I doubt that many men (and some women) understand the depth of the harm that misogynists do. I’ve know black women who have said that misogynism has caused more pain in their lives than racism. There are a lot of people who don’t even catch misognynistic or, at best, sexist statements when they hear them.
I agree that his black and white thinking, when expressed, is one of the biggest problems that he has in debating. And if one challenges the absurdity of his extremest claims, his posts just get worse.
If he is smart enough to manipulate the “criticize the post and not the poster,” rule, he is smart enough to add or subtract some of the qualifier words that would make his posts less tearing. Is it jerkish to be an Islamaphobe and not jerkish to be a Christophobe?
There are not many Christians here that try to cram their beliefs down another’s throat. But, judging from Der Trihs posts, you would never know that.
BTW, a bomb beneath a house in my neighborhood went off the other day. No one was injured physically, but the daughter, who was leaving for school at the time, was terrified. She is a Moslem. Many people in my neighborhood are. That’s one reason I become angry that Der Trihs negative comments against religions are tolerated so seemingly casually by the mods. To him, I suspect that it is just blather. But to people in large settlements of Islamists, the consequences of such rabid hatred is real.
I like Der Trihs. Always have. He says what he believes.
He says it loudly… Volume cranked to eleven… But he’s honest, dammit. He doesn’t play games. He doesn’t distort, doesn’t quote out of context, doesn’t alter the meaning of posts, doesn’t “straw man,” doesn’t do all the dishonest things that – ahem – some others here do all the damn time. He has more integrity than a hell of a lot of others.
And he also has a right fine knack of saying something funny, or making a Green Lantern allusion, at just the right time.
I don’t agree with him all the time, but I’ve never, ever found any reason to disdain him. He’s a lot more honest than some of the people here. I’d take ten of him over any one of…you know…them…
(The last time “Them” got mentioned that way, he was the one who mentioned giant ants. For that alone, I’ll always love him!)
IME it’s mainly* people on the Right, politically, or Christians, who start threads pitting/complaining about DT, and are the most vociferous when one is started.
Whether this stems from their perception of persecution on the board (witness recent threads asking that very question) coupled with the availability of a seemingly easy retaliatory target (can’t really think of a softer target on the Left, myself, given how many fellow-travellers profess no love for him), or whether there’s still some grudge-holding over earlier failed attempts to rally Board ire against him (like that particularly acrimonious Pit thread after he called some troop “thugs”), I can’t say.
- Yes, I know you personally started a thread calling him out on his alleged misogyny and IFAIK you’re neither a Rightist nor a Christian. I did say “mainly,” and I have explained elsewhere why I think that particular charge is over-zealous anyway.
I’ll just throw this out. And I don’t know if Der Tris does this or not. I let other folks/mods decide if this is true. I roll my eyes a lot with his posts though.
Lets say you have rules. This side of the line your fine. Other side you’ve gone too far. I have no qualms with somebody who seems to with great regularity to be dancing up to line have stricter rules and having their personal line pushed further back.
IMO those rules are designed for decent folks who get a little carried away or forgetful or just aren’t thinking at the moment ONCE IN AWHILE, because hey, nobody is perfect.
But if you are constantly doing it, then you IMO rightfully deserve harsher rules because regardless of why you are doing it, you’re stinking up the place more than is reasonable. And that’s not fair to people who can behave themselves.
Again, I reserve judgement as to whether this is the case for Der Tris, but I think the “whacha gonna do? he’s still on this side of the line” thing is a bit lame.
So does Fred Phelps. “Saying what you believe” isn’t in itself an admirable quality.
He’s honest, no doubt about that. He honestly believes what he’s spouting. I don’t believe anyone in this thread doesn’t think he believes what he says. That’s not the point…a lot of 9/11 CT nutters believe what they say as well.
For the rest, I’m honestly baffled. He doesn’t distort?? So, you really believe that all Americans, ‘conservatives’ (which, by his definition is everyone up to and including Obama) and religious people are evil sociopaths? Or that his ridiculous cartoon characterizations aren’t strawmen?? Just because he really, really believes it doesn’t mean it’s not a strawman. Just because he’s not dishonest in his ridiculous cartoon-iverse view of reality doesn’t excuse what he does.
And he DOES alter the meaning of peoples post, since he filters everything through his own skewed view of reality. Anything that he doesn’t agree with is put in the worst possible light, with generous heapings of hyperbole and over the top rhetoric to garnish the point.
Sometimes in this thread it’s hard for me to see how we are talking about the same poster. And I have to say the Mod responses have been rather confusing as well. Clearly, however, they are taking a business as usual approach to this non-issue (to them), so seems silly to keep the thread going at this point.
Respectfully, if you think that Der Trihs doesn’t “straw man” then you either aren’t familiar with his posts or you don’t understand the concept of “straw manning” your opponents.
That’s a good point, particularly since the mods have repeatedly taken the position that they don’t like people who deliberately try and dance just in front of the line and “don’t put up with that” and have compared it to someone waving their hand in front of another’s face while yelling “I’m not touching you.”
Moreover, on this very thread, Der Trihs has freely admitted that he deliberately engages in the behavior people are protesting to get around the rules.