Saying religions are stupid causes bombs to explode under houses. Oh, the POWER!
I wish pile-on mobs weren’t so damned sloppy with their pitchforks. I tripped over a couple in the last couple of pages. Luckily I picked up a still-burning torch, so I could see the others lying in the dirt.
Prudent for all men? Because that was your claim in post 261. Now I included the excerpt because I didn’t want to sugarcoat Der Trihs’ remarks. But methinks they’ve been exaggerated in the retelling. The first line was more than a quip, but the 2nd line gave some rather relevant context. When you say something like, “What’s sauce for the goose…”, it should be noted.
That said, I have some sympathies for the remainder of your post. But I’ll note that Der wasn’t the only one behaving badly in that thread, though it seems that he’s the only one that’s continually called out on it, with some distortion of his position.
Really? Then I’d like to know what you DO consider hateful towards women.
Oh, it’s definitely a sexist paranoia, but I don’t agree that it’s a misogynistic one - the distinction, to me, being that you can be sexist in some particular things and not others, but misogyny isn’t really something that crops up in one aspect of your beliefs and not another - and DT’s pro-choice beliefs aren’t misogynistic, for example.
Sigh, the question was put forth regarding a person who had hidden cameras dotted all over there apartment to secretly record sexual encounters with women and people were asked what they thought of that.
Most people thought this was disgusting, but Der Trihs promptly piped up that what the man was doing was “prudent”.
Now, did he say it was “prudent” for all men?
No, but you’re being absurdly pedantic if you’re trying to argue that wasn’t the message of his post.
Yes, SDMB has unfortunately a large number of misogynists. He happens to be one of the most vocal.
He also later on claimed that he’d read “some FBI report” that claimed that 65% of all people in jail for rape were demonstrably innocent which shows a rather jaw-droppingly level of ignorance and lack of common sense for someone regularly claims all religious people are irrational.
Naturally, he can’t provide any evidence of this supposed report.*
Now, I certainly don’t know why he’s as much of a sexist as he is, but I actually have more respect and sympathy for Noam Chomsky’s claim that he sees “no hint of anti-Semitism” in denial of the existence of the Holocaust or gas chambers.
*. I’m not implying that he’s making it up.
I find discussions of the question as to the differences between “sexism” and “misogyny” quite tedious, pedantic, and pointless.
I could be wrong, but I suspect you feel the same.
I’m reminded of all the people who insist that “so and so doesn’t hate black people and you can only be a racist if you hate black people. He just thinks they’re genetically less intelligent than whites” or “so and so doesn’t hate Muslims, he just thinks they’re savages so he’s not a racist” or “so and so doesn’t hate ALL Jews. He thinks there are some good ones. He only hates those who control the US government and manipulate it for their own purposes”.
I notice you’ve avoided the question as to whether or not it would be “paranoia” or “racism” to call for secretly surveilling all black people to make sure they’re not engaging in violent crimes.
If you truly feel the way you feel about Der Trihs, then for intellectual consistency, you’d have to argue that such proposals reflect “paranoia” not “racism”.
So?
Pat Robertson is strong supporter of Israel but has made plenty of anti-Semitic statements in the past.
Based on such logic, he’s not.
I read the thread in question, and the linked Pit thread too. I was a amazed that so many people thought there was nothing wrong with recording sex without the other person’s consent. I can’t really say what I think about such attitudes in this forum, so suffice to say I pretty much agreed with everything DianaG posted in the original thread.
I agree that bigoted opinions are often expressed on this board, but I’m pretty sure were better off with the posters taking issue with it rather than the mods trying to stifle it.
Guinistasia, thanks for all of the work that you did to gather some of Der Trihs’ most ludicrous comments about women. I wonder if he has noticed the three men in the military who were put in charge of securing other members of the military from being victims of rape. All are being investigated for sexual offenses themselves. BTW, there are several thousand men who are victims of rape in the military too.
I do remember that Der Trihs argued that rape is just an act of sex and not of violence or the expression of power. The violence and rage that rape demonstrates is so pervasive that chemical castration is NOT supported by women’s groups. It doesn’t solve the violence problem. The rapist finds other ways to suppress, humiliate, and violate women.
I tried twice in this thread to be patient with him and to help him debate a little better. He completely misread (or did not comprehend) what I tried to explain to him. I believe his posts are altered by some inability to make sense of things or to control his rage. IANA psychiatrist.
But I too have had mental problems that affected my judgment at times. It is a chronic but non acute form of clinical depression and anxiety. I’ve had it for 50 years. That and many, many rounds of electric shock therapy in the 1960s has changed my brain and wiped out years of memory in spots. That is no excuse for any poor conduct that I might display at the Dope.
But if I ever make the kind of non-sensical, sick, vicious, and twisted generalizations that Der Trihs does, please let me know by Mod or by squad of friends that I am hurting people and need to stop.
Not really - it’s good to get one’s terminology straight. I’m with you that arguing semantics is often the last resort when you don’t have anything else going for you in an argument, but in this case, I think it’s a valid area of concern.
Well, that’s kind of the thing, though - you can be racist without hating blacks. You can seek advantage for just your own race, for example. Not that that’s what the scientific racists are doing, but it is possible.
Similarly, I think it’s possible to be sexist without being misogynist.
You have to see these example as being a little silly. The correct analogy for “racist” is “sexist”, not “misogynist”, and I’m not denying DT’s sexism.
It would be both.
It would be both.
Look, the way I see it, racism is the equivalent of sexism. The equivalent of misogyny would be really hate-driven racism of the KKK and Stormfront variety. Which is not what I’m seeing from DT - rabid racists aren’t generally for realising the Turner Diaries on the one hand and for Affirmative action on the other, at the same time, which is kind of where DT is with his MRA-gender-war bullshit on the one hand, and then his pro-choice and anti-religious-discrimination-against-women stances on the other hand.
Pat Robertson is pro-Israel for entirely selfish motives that have nothing to do with the welfare of Jews and everything to do with his own eschatology. He can, too, be anti-Semitic and support Israel.
No, I said that rape requires only ruthlessness, not some larger agenda. Rape is not normally “about power” any more than mugging is typically “about resentment of the rich”. Selfishness a much more common motive for predatory behavior than some grand overarching evil agenda.
I pointed out that claiming that “rape is about power” directly implied either that ruthless amoral men who will casually rob & kill will refrain from rape unless they happen to have an anti-woman political agenda; or that all ruthless men for some reason are inherently misogynistic; or that all men everywhere are intrinsically anti-woman. The first two make no sense, and the third is just plain misandry. And I pointed out that not everyone in the world is consumed by gender politics, that there are other motivations people have.
And awaaaaay we gooooooooooo! DT’s trademark blackandwhitethereisnoinbetween view of the world strikes again.
Seriously, why is it so hard for you to grasp that all it takes for rape to be about power is for just those individuals–not all men–who rape to be using rape as a tool to exercise power?
Crud. I misworded the post above. I meant to say:
Some people here seem to be pitting Der Trihs instead of complaining about the moderation. Please note that he isn’t responding in kind and insulting his attackers, but instead is politely following the rules and responding to accusations rather than insults. He deserves a pat on the back for rising above this thinly veiled pitting.
I truly don’t understand the current responses from most moderators. Tom won’t mod Der Trihs because Der has been here longer? Maybe Tom was just pulling our collective leg. Some of the mods seem fearful of some backlash for being “heavy handed.” Suck it up! We do when we are pitted. Another mod seldom reads Great Debates but thinks he understands what we are talking about when we speak of Der Trihs.
Der, when did I ever say or even suggest that rapists have some overarching evil agenda? I don’t even believe in “evil.” Yes, rape is selfish. Duh! Of course it is! But it is not just about sex, and that is what you claimed at the time. And it is violent. Do you think it’s just another way of “making love” with a lot of screams and resistance?
This is the kind of mysogynist and ignorant banter that greets me almost every time I come into “Great” Debates. Sure, I could stop posting in GD. But why should I be the one just because you are the evening’s entertainment in the absurdity of your posts? Do you really think you are fighting ignorance? I could ignore you, but then I would miss the context of most of the posts.
What do you call someone who knows the rules, skirts the rules, and does it with a possible addiction to the adrenaline rush that results from hatred and mean-spiritedness? How should the mods handle that? Beats me.
My suggestions so far:
Does this thread even have a point any more? I mean besides trying to figure out how sexist and/or misogynist Der Tris is?
Because he never responds when people call him out in the Pit, and people are sick of it.
And while he may be following the rules, but not exactly “politely”.
The point seems to be how certain posters get away with BBQ Pitting **Der Trihs **without actually visiting the Pit and exposing themselves to in-kind responses. So it’s bullying at this point, right? Because he hasn’t yet responded with a personal attack on any of the posters who are criticizing him here.
Oh horseshit. You can quibble over whether the links and quotes provided do constitute misogynism (personally I don’t think so…I think it’s just Der being his usual black and white, charming self), but nothing in this thread rises to the level of a Pitting. What I’m seeing is a lot of folks frustrated by his posting style and asking the Mods why they put up with it, while others are trying to make excuses for Der or handwave away his behavior.
That said, Irishman has the right of it…there isn’t really any point in this thread anymore, since the Mods have come down with their take on things, and they don’t see an issue.
I’m not seeing the use of this either. This isn’t the right forum to argue with Der Trihs about his opinions, perhaps it was worthwhile so people could see it’s basically pointless. (Hey, I tried.) And piling on the guy isn’t appropriate for this forum either. Our view has been that Der Trihs’ posts may be obnoxious and they may contribute little to the discussion in some cases, but they generally don’t break the rules. That being the case, you can engage and accept the posts for what they are, you can ignore them, or you can Pit him.