# Curlcoat, what's the deal with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379 "2008-12-22T22:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/201 "2009-01-05T04:20:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Actually, if you read what I’ve written, it all points to me not wanting to pay taxes to schools that are no longer educating anyone. Cite that public schools are no longer educating anyone, please. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/202 "2009-01-05T04:30:28Z")
I missed this earlier- > [@curlcoat](#): > > Reading, writing and math. You know, the basics. But no history. Right? :smack: **curlcoat** , did posts #170 & 197 contain too much actual information and first-hand knowledge of CA’s education funding and property tax practices for you to deal with? Just wondering… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/203 "2009-01-05T04:52:41Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > I would be interested in your research pool, except that I know you don’t have one. Research pool? You mean cite? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/204 "2009-01-05T05:03:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Not what my dictionary says. If you want to use words in ways not generally used by the rest of the English-speaking world, you might want to let us know ahead of time, or find better words. I think what I will do is number the responses that I have to post more than twice. This one is “Google the word” - you’ll find out that much of the English-speaking world uses this word, with this definition. > [@](#): > > You stated you hadn’t been to school in over 30 years and weren’t familiar with what they taught. I am certainly not familiar with the specifics, which isn’t the subject here. > [@](#): > > I suppose it will surprise you to know people have been making this same complaint for longer than you have been alive. Another of your complaints, “That music the kids are listening to isn’t music at all,” is the same; old farts said that about the music you listened to when youwere a kid. These compalints have always existed. Old people whine about kids. It’s the natural order of things. This may be true, tho back when the old farts complained about the Beatles, they wouldn’t have been able to back up their complaint with facts - the Beatles were making music by definition, most rappers are not. As for the lack of education, if this is a complaint that has been made since before I was born, dontcha think it’s time someone did something about this? Maybe free public school isn’t such a good idea after all. > [@](#): > > You’ve slept in the Lincoln Bedroom, have you? No but I hope to see it some day, just as I hope to see more of the artifacts of our country’s history. > [@](#): > > You get a lot of use out of nuclear missile silos? That one I am ambivalent about - I don’t think nuclear weapons are a good idea, but I don’t know enough about the balance of power thruout the world to know if we need to have them or not. > [@](#): > > Of course we should be concerned about where the money is spent. If the money spent on schools is poorly spent - which may or may not be true in your area, I don’t know - that’s a matter of great concern, and you’re quite right to complain. What you don’t have any right to bitch about is that you have to pay for schools despite not having kids of your own. You pay for schools not because you have kids but because we ALL pay for schools, and we ALL get a chance at a public education. One education for each potential future taxpayer. That’s the fairest system. In your opinion. You guys need to get over yourselves - there is not way I can keep up with this. Unless that is the idea? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/205 "2009-01-05T05:13:25Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > **curlcoat** , did posts #170 & 197 contain too much actual information and first-hand knowledge of CA’s education funding and property tax practices for you to deal with? Just wondering… I’d like to see curlcoat address this as well. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/206 "2009-01-05T05:20:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > We lived on state disability payments (me) and unemployment (him) > [@curlcoat](#): > > Such as having to deal over and over with idiotic entitlement attitudes at work I’m struggling to find some commentary to add, but I think those two quotes in juxtaposition say it all. I’ll just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/207 "2009-01-05T05:27:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Generally, yes, they do. > > If there is a salestax, they pay it. (There is no cash register in the country programmed to accept a keystroke indicating “illegal alien, suppress the tax.”) > > If there is a property tax, they pay it. No tax district tells the appraisers to skip over any house owned by an illegal alien or any assessor to withhold the bills to such a house. (And no landloerd fails to include property taxes in the amount he or she charges for rent.) I asked my husband about this one and I find that there is a possibility that I could be wrong on this, it depends on if the illegal has a (fake) social security card or not. Since there are taxes attached to owning property, a buyer has to have a SSN in order to buy, but apparently noone really checks to see if the number is “real” or not. So maybe they do pay property tax, which is the only tax under discussion here. OTOH, if I were an illegal I wouldn’t buy property, since the whole idea is to stay under the radar. As for rentals, for the most part illegals cannot afford to pay that for an apartment. What they tend to do is rent a house and stick four families in it. I suppose that in a way that means they are paying property tax, but it is the landlord that is actually paying that tax. Not too many landlords have 10 children. > [@](#): > > If there is income tax, they _might_ avoid it, but they will probably have to pay it. Housekeepers and gardeners who are being paid under the table might get away with no income tax (thanks to the _largesse_ of those people weathy enough to actually have housekeepers and gardeners who are willing to cheat the government). Actually, most maids and gardeners here are paid by check by a bunch of individuals, except for those maids that go thru agencies. (I imagine that illegals do not go thru agencies unless they have fake SS cards.) Anyway, the only way that the IRS or the state income tax board is going to catch these illegals is if they happen to audit someone who employs a freelance gardener or maid, and they happen to decide to check out this gardener or maid that the person hired. This doesn’t appear to happen real often. When I was still working, we had a gardener. The first one we had disappeared suddenly, so most likely he was either deported or reported. If my gardener works alone or with a family member, he has no need to report anything to the government, unless they catch him. The penalty for being caught? Deportation. > [@](#): > > However, the majority of illegal immigrants are working in factories or for construction companies In California? I’m thinking that might be true where you live, but not so much here. There are illegals working as migrant farmer workers but the “migrant” and “out on the farm” part makes it hard for the IRS to find them. However, most of the illegals in my city work for each other. Or rather, there is one legal who owns the carniceria or lavanderia and has one or two legal employees and a ton of illegal ones. Not to mention the illegals that stand around the Lowes and Home Depot parking lots waiting for off the books construction work. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/208 "2009-01-05T05:36:34Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > **curlcoat** , did posts #170 & 197 contain too much actual information and first-hand knowledge of CA’s education funding and property tax practices for you to deal with? Just wondering… Well, y’know, facts are scary. Hey **curlcoat** , you’re a stupid fucking cow. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/209 "2009-01-05T05:44:40Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > When I was still working, we had a gardener. The first one we had disappeared suddenly, so most likely he was either deported or reported. If my gardener works alone or with a family member, he has no need to report anything to the government, unless they catch him. The penalty for being caught? Deportation. Let me get this straight. You knowingly (1) employed an illegal alien, and (2) presumably failed to report his or her income to state and federal tax authorities? :dubious: Also, I’d be interested to see you address EJsGirl’s points in posts 170 and 197. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/210 "2009-01-05T05:48:26Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I came in here to say this. In cases where they don’t have forged or stolen SS#s they have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number which basically functions as a social security number. ITINs are obtainable without proof of citizenship. In California? If so, that is incredibly stupid. > [@](#): > > Also, with my admittedly cursory understanding of linguistics I have to take issue with the idea that children having to learn English is holding everybody back. Teaching a fourth grader a second language is not the same thing as teaching it to an adult. Children are much more receptive to learning new languages. It is much more likely that those illiterate employees you ran into aren’t the children of immigrants but immigrants themselves. Some kids come here as young as 15, 16, 17 with no other family. At that age they might have a more difficult time picking up the language. But if you have a child in an English speaking country being taught English in the classroom they are most likely going to pick it up fast. OK, look at this logically. Take the things that a fourth grader, who has English as a primary language, is supposed to learn in the year that s/he is in fourth grade. Now add in children who do not speak any or very little English. Then fold in No Child Left Behind. Now you have fourth graders taught reading, writing and math at the level of a child who doesn’t understand the language its being taught in at all or very well. Can you see the problem? Then they go to fifth grade, not knowing the things that fourth graders used to know, and are taught at the level of fifth graders who don’t know English very well. And on and on. Apparently, according to **RickJay** , children graduating high school with extremely poor educations had been going on for quite some time, but that doesn’t mean it should continue, should it? I’m thinking expecting a child to pick up a new language, especially one that makes as little sense as English, while they are supposed to be learning how to read, write and do math as well as not a really good idea. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/211 "2009-01-05T05:54:01Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? The public school system is not a babysitting service- stop flaunting your ignorance like you’re proud of it. You know NOTHING about it but continue to spew nonsense. Hon, you apparently live in Huntington Beach or Long Beach, maybe Laguna Beach or Newport. Do you think that all of the public schools are the same as the one you have, whereever you are? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/212 "2009-01-05T06:01:30Z")
Hon, would you care to confirm that you personally have employed an illegal alien? If so, it looks like you feel that Mexicans are good enough to work your garden but their children shouldn’t be allowed in your schools. Congratulations, you’re well on your way to progressing from Stupid Cow to Evil Bitch. Also, I’d be interested to see you address EJsGirl’s points in posts 170 and 197. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/213 "2009-01-05T06:02:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > …OK, look at this logically. Take the things that a fourth grader, who has English as a primary language, is supposed to learn in the year that s/he is in fourth grade. Now add in children who do not speak any or very little English. Then fold in No Child Left Behind. Now you have fourth graders taught reading, writing and math at the level of a child who doesn’t understand the language its being taught in at all or very well. Can you see the problem? Then they go to fifth grade, not knowing the things that fourth graders used to know, and are taught at the level of fifth graders who don’t know English very well. And on and on. Apparently, according to **RickJay** , children graduating high school with extremely poor educations had been going on for quite some time, but that doesn’t mean it should continue, should it? I’m thinking expecting a child to pick up a new language, especially one that makes as little sense as English, while they are supposed to be learning how to read, write and do math as well as not a really good idea. You know nothing about education, past, present or future. For all we know, you attended excellent schools; you were simply to stupid to learn. There have been several posts in this thread explaining how ESL & bilingual education work, but they were wasted on you. That “too stupid” thing cropped up again. Oh, and what about the gardener you employed illegally? Unless he was quite legal & just found a better employer. By the way, what’s your “disability”? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/214 "2009-01-05T06:04:21Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Research pool? You mean cite? I believe she wants to see where you get your “facts”. I think the easiest way to do so starts with sitting on a scanner. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/215 "2009-01-05T06:16:59Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > She has said she lives in southern California, and our property tax rates are quite low- certainly nothing near your rate- yowch. Passed in 1978, Proposition 13 limited property taxes to 1 percent of assessed value (plus bond debt) and also allowed values to rise by 2 percent a year — unless the housing market doesn’t support the 2 percent increase. It depends on when you bought your house. However, unless you have a house that you bought at the very end of the last boom \*and \* you can get a reassessment, your property taxes will go up 2 percent every year, which is what ours do. Places that have high property taxes probably don’t have state income tax, or higher user taxes. It tends to balance out. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/216 "2009-01-05T06:18:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Math not a strong suit either, I see. A property tax of 3% of your income does not mean 3% of your income is being spent on education. In our city, almost all of the property tax income goes to education. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/217 "2009-01-05T06:38:19Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Hm. I have been giving you the benefit of the doubt so far and assuming that you have a basic level of knowledge about the stuff you’re talking about, but now I don’t think so. I did my student teaching (I am not a teacher now, just for the record) in Illinois, and the large high school I taught at had a comprehensive ESL program that was designed to integrate students into mainstream classrooms in a relatively short period of time. It was very effective. It wasn’t just a matter of giving them a couple of English classes and then throwing them to the wolves. Do you have any idea what ESL programs typically look like? Do you understand that they are not just English classes? Do you understand the difference between Illinois and California? Do you share a border with a third world country that doesn’t speak English? > [@](#): > > Saying “You should save 20 random strangers rather than your pet” is not the same as saying “You should love my child more than you love your pet.” Come on. No? > [@](#): > > And anyway, it is your frankly bizarre assertion that you would rather save your pet than 20 strangers (apparently on the grounds that some people do crappy things and therefore it’s OK to let strangers die, because, you know, they might have done crappy things) that originally made me think that you are not quite playing with a full deck of cards. Really, valuing the life of a pet over the lives of 20 other human beings is not normal or OK. It’s not just a “different and legitimate choice.” It’s messed up and wrong. I am valuing the life of someone ( to you, something) I know over the life of 20 random strangers. Why is it ok to value the life of a child, who has contributed nothing, over the life of 20 strangers but not the life of a pet? The answer is because society values children over everything else. Whether or not this is “right” is a different discussion - all I am doing here is stating that I value my pets at the same level a parent values their child. > [@](#): > > And as far as public schools being “glorified babysitters,” I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask for some cites on that one. Pick the school district of your choice and prove, via test scores, attendance rates, graduation rates, or other legitimate criteria, that the majority of students there are simply sitting there all day being looked after and are not learning anything. Oh please. Even babysat kids learn something. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/218 "2009-01-05T06:57:43Z")
Hi curlcoat, just in case you missed it above, could you answer my questions? (1) Do I read your previous posts correctly that you have employed an illegal alien? (2) Is my presumtion correct that you failed to report the income you paid to such individual(s) to state and federal tax authorities? And a bonus question: (3) As a non-contributing sow suckling on the public teat, don’t you see just a teensy smidgen of irony in your positions? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/219 "2009-01-05T07:28:03Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > No, it’s just another of her rantings that she actually doesn’t know anything about, at all. I think we’re arguing that it’s six of one, a half dozen of another. If someone doesn’t know anything about a topic but still wants to argue about it. their motivations can’t be honest discussion, fighting their ignorance or an exchange of ideas. Their only motivation is to start conflict regardless of what the facts of the matter are. That this creature rants on matters that she knows nothing about just shows that her true motivation is to cause conflict. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379/220 "2009-01-05T13:52:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > In our city, almost all of the property tax income goes to education. Your city is completely unique in the entire State of California in this regard? I’d be fascinated to know what city this is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-whats-the-deal-with-you/478379.md?page=12)