# curlcoat...yet again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298 "2012-05-18T10:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/21 "2012-05-18T16:43:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Temper their pulic reation? Of course. Finding ‘joy’? No. So there was _nothing_ joyful about my birth? Despite my mom enjoying being a young mother? Despite the fact that both her and I have enjoyed happy, meaningful lives and made positive contributions to society? Even though everything worked out swimmingly, my birth should have still been an occasion of shame and reprobation? Oh, you may say, we are working on probabilities. Why, exactly, are you deciding ahead of time that a child is headed to the worst possible fate? Who does that help? What good does it bring to the world to decide that a child is “doomed” and their existence should be mourned? ---
**Author:** ![reddog\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@reddog\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reddog_1)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/22 "2012-05-18T16:56:54Z")
It all made sense to me after I figured out she was she a dog person\*. They are notorious for being odd and ill-tempered, in my experience anyway. I haven’t met many that were happy to see children at dog exhibitions either. Shame, because they’ll find their sport dies if they don’t encourage young people to be interested. \*Not just a dog owner, but one who shows, breeds, & trains. She is I’d guess fairly well known in her breed circle and has had some nice successes with her dogs (the dog show world is a small one). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/23 "2012-05-18T16:58:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So there was _nothing_ joyful about my birth? > > Despite my mom enjoying being a young mother? Despite the fact that both her and I have enjoyed happy, meaningful lives and made positive contributions to society? Even though everything worked out swimmingly, my birth should have still been an occasion of shame and reprobation? > > Oh, you may say, we are working on probabilities. Why, exactly, are you deciding ahead of time that a child is headed to the worst possible fate? Who does that help? What good does it bring to the world to decide that a child is “doomed” and their existence should be mourned? For a to-be mother that is seriously down and out. No, I could not find joy in the impending birth. I did not say mourned. I did not say that I thought the child is heading for the worst possible fate. Do not put words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/24 "2012-05-18T17:05:39Z")
I’m glad **curlcoat** posts here - it’s good to have opinions from all over the spectrum, and she’s a good counterpoint to people who have the opposite view to hers. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/25 "2012-05-18T17:06:56Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Temper their pulic reation? Of course. Finding ‘joy’? No. Ok, **curlcoat** doesn’t seem to understand the “tempering the public reaction”. That’s what is causing the responses in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/26 "2012-05-18T17:13:10Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Ok, **curlcoat** doesn’t seem to understand the “tempering the public reaction”. That’s what is causing the responses in the other thread. I saw that she didn’t understand the over the top ‘joy’ expressed in what could be a dire circumstance. I think that reaction could be tempered as well. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/27 "2012-05-18T17:54:35Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So there was _nothing_ joyful about my birth? > > Despite my mom enjoying being a young mother? Despite the fact that both her and I have enjoyed happy, meaningful lives and made positive contributions to society? Even though everything worked out swimmingly, my birth should have still been an occasion of shame and reprobation? > > Oh, you may say, we are working on probabilities. Why, exactly, are you deciding ahead of time that a child is headed to the worst possible fate? Who does that help? What good does it bring to the world to decide that a child is “doomed” and their existence should be mourned? Because frequently there’s still time to end the problem pregnancy before it becomes a worse problem of an unwanted birth. If a little (or a lot) of public shaming, ridicule, etc., is what it takes to get some one to end a bad idea pregnancy, I am in favor of it. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/28 "2012-05-18T17:54:38Z")
The problem isn’t that she doesn’t understand why people express joy in these marginal situations. The problem is that fundamentally she doesn’t understand why people express joy about any pregnancy at all. She doesn’t get why people can be happy to have babies. In that sense her world-view is so different from mine and, I suspect, that of most adults that we will never be able to communicate. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/29 "2012-05-18T17:58:19Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Really? You don’t find a problem with: > > You really think the law should not allow women to decide whether or not to bear a child? As long as the law does not allow the the rest of society to decide whether or not to bear the financial and environmental costs of a child, yes. As long as we have a safety net, there must be some discretation in breeding. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/30 "2012-05-18T17:58:46Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The problem isn’t that she doesn’t understand why people express joy in these marginal situations. The problem is that fundamentally she doesn’t understand why people express joy about any pregnancy at all. She doesn’t get why people can be happy to have babies. > > In that sense her world-view is so different from mine and, I suspect, that of most adults that we will never be able to communicate. Didn’t see that at all. Did you read her OP? Bolding mine. > [@curlcoat](#): > > bad idea pregnancies > > * * * > > I wasn’t sure if this should go here or MPSIMS but here goes. I honestly don’t understand why it is that people are so happy when a woman/girl gets pregnant at a **really bad time. She can be unemployed and unmarried but the reaction is the same as if she were actually ready to be able take proper care of a baby.** She could be a teen who is looking at a good chance at ruining her life, but same reaction. How the girl/woman feels about being pregnant doesn’t seem to affect the reaction. > > Is it that they are just blinded by how they feel about babies? Or living in a fantasy land that it will somehow all work out? Or? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/31 "2012-05-18T18:04:49Z")
Yes, and what we have been trying to say is that the reaction she sees, _in public_ can be due to: 1. Confirmation bias 2. Completely different experience from others 3. Again, this is in public. _In private_, the responses may be way more different. IOW, the reaction she sees in public is because in general people don’t go around berating/belittling/insulting/acting negatively towards other people (in public). This covers not just pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/32 "2012-05-18T18:09:15Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Yes, and what we have been trying to say is that the reaction she sees, _in public_ can be due to: > > 1. Confirmation bias > > 2. Completely different experience from others > > 3. Again, this is in public. _In private_, the responses may be way more different. > > IOW, the reaction she sees in public is because in general people don’t go around berating/belittling/insulting/acting negatively towards other people (in public). This covers not just pregnancy. How do you get from there to - [QUOTE=KarlGrenze] The problem is that fundamentally she doesn’t understand why people express joy about any pregnancy at all. She doesn’t get why people can be happy to have babies. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/33 "2012-05-18T18:11:56Z")
Don’t quote me on stuff that I didn’t write. That is suranyi, not I. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/34 "2012-05-18T18:17:38Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Didn’t see that at all. Did you read her OP? > > Bolding mine. I got that from her posting history throughout that thread and going several years back as well. Not just the OP. She’s made it very clear: She hates kids, she hates babies, she doesn’t know why anybody would ever have one. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/35 "2012-05-18T18:19:30Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Don’t quote me on stuff that I didn’t write. That is suranyi, not I. Very sorry. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/36 "2012-05-18T18:21:44Z")
> [@ZPG Zealot](#): > > As long as we have a safety net, there must be some discretation in breeding. To whom would such a responsibility fall? Do you have any evidence to suggest that the financial and environmental costs of a child are significantly higher for the children of unemployed or unmarried mothers? > [@enipla](#): > > Did you read her OP? Did you read the rest of the thread? > [@curlcoat](#): > > But at the very least, the vast middle ground between “being treated as a gift and a joy” or “having every adult sighing and shaking their head at the very thought of your existence” should be used. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/37 "2012-05-18T18:30:56Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Did you read the rest of the thread? > [@Originally Posted by curlcoat](#): > > But at the very least, the vast middle ground between “being treated as a gift and a joy” or “having every adult sighing and shaking their head at the very thought of your existence” should be used. I didn’t read it in depth, but, I agree with her that in dire circumstances, a middle ground could/should be used. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/38 "2012-05-18T19:54:14Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I didn’t read it in depth, but, I agree with her that in dire circumstances, a middle ground could/should be used. To what end? If the decision has been made, then there’s nothing to be gained by expressing ambivalence to the mother-to-be. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/39 "2012-05-18T20:17:32Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > To what end? If the decision has been made, then there’s nothing to be gained by expressing ambivalence to the mother-to-be. Should I tell a minor that I just think it’s wonderful that she’s pregnant? How about someone on welfare? How about a drug addict? Sorry, I’m not sure what I would say, but I wouldn’t be jumping for ‘joy’ for them. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298/40 "2012-05-18T20:29:35Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Should I tell a minor that I just think it’s wonderful that she’s pregnant? How about someone on welfare? How about a drug addict? And this is where people differ and have different experiences, and public vs private is different. In public, it is frowned to be a jerk to someone. In private, you can talk to that person and express your concerns. Experiences also differ because I’ve known relatives who became pregnant at various less desirable times, and while yes, in public the relatives were in a way happy at the prospect of a new relative, in private the more somber and ambivalent feelings were expressed. But you know? Unless you’re family, unless you’re close the pregnant person, you wouldn’t know. Also, I don’t see the exuberant joy that others see. It may be a matter of degrees, or perspective, since that is a very subective judgement. And apologies accepted, **enipla**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curlcoat-yet-again/622298.md?page=3)